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PODCAST

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Legal Talk Network

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law"s Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

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All Episodes

35:38

Disney Lawyers Learn That Discretion Is The Better...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/08/21

Just because you can make an argument, doesn't mean you should.----- Disney's lawyers made headlines last week, but not the good kind like you want. After lawyers argued that a free trial to Disney+ required a wrongful death suit to move to forced arbitration, we wondered how everyone from outside to inside counsel dropped the ball here. Immediately after recording, Disney backtracked. Also, is Skadden falling behind? And we talk legal technology!

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32:59

Who Will Join Milbank's Summer Bonus Party?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/08/14

Milbank is leading the associate compensation charge -- again -- with summer bonuses. The associate there must be thrilled... Unlike DLA Piper's associates. That firm changed course on office attendance and it's going over like a lead balloon. Elon Musk also changed course, because when he told advertisers to go F themselves he really meant, "if you don't do what I want you to do I'll sue you."

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38:39

Another Bar Exam In The Books

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/08/07

Talking Supreme Court term limits (they're good!), bar exams (they're bad!), and a law professor's conception of free speech (it's ugly!).----- The bar exam is officially past, now we wait to learn passed. This year's examination included dehydrating applicants and examinees missing out on their family's Olympic success. While bar exam changes are coming -- and law students can get paid to help -- at the end of the day it's a giant boondoggle pushed by people who've never even taken the test. With

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33:12

Overpaid Partners, Nikki Haley Lashes Out, And Judge...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/07/31

Should we pay associates more and partners less? That's what this client thinks. Nikki Haley is threatening legal action against her supporters. Top notch politicking! Panel thinks that, maybe, a NY judge who threatened to shoot teenagers shouldn't stay on the job.

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40:07

Yale Law School Not Sending Its Best

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/07/24

J.D. Vance brought Yale Law back into the spotlight.----- As soon as J.D. Vance found himself on the GOP ticket, everyone who remembered him from his Yale Law days shared their thoughts and brought out their receipts. “JD’s rise is a triumph for angry jerks everywhere,” isn't a ringing endorsement. The campaign also tried to pull a fast one with some tricky phrasing about his time on the Yale Law Journal. Kirkland & Ellis adopts a carrot and stick approach -- rewarding associates for recruiting and

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37:28

Judges Behaving Badly

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/07/17

They're not sending their best.----- The Department of Justice has appointed special counsel to investigate politically charged cases for over a century. But Judge Aileen Cannon decided she has found a nugget of wisdom that every judge since the late 1800s overlooked and jettisoned Trump's classified documents case claiming that Jack Smith's was unconstitutionally appointed. Another of Trump's appointees stepped down after the circuit compiled nearly 1000 pages of misconduct allegations against

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39:00

Biglaw's Big Billing Bonanza

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/07/10

Where are those summer bonuses? Don't give up hope yet.----- Law firms are rolling in dough as partners are charging more and billing more. But comparing Biglaw to the NBA? Come on, New York Times. Despite all the money, it's not trickling down to associates in the form of mass summer bonuses yet, though there may still be some green on the horizon. And why are certain people so angry about testing reform?

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36:51

Supreme Court Goes Out In Blaze Of Mendacity

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/07/03

Textualism and Originalism evaporate in face of partisan objectives.----- The Supreme Court closed out its season sidestepping text, precedent, and history -- the trifecta! -- to invent a new form of immunity to bail out Donald Trump. Weird, because so many of them were asked about this precise issue under oath and offered very different analysis. We also got January 6 legalized -- over the fiery dissent of Amy Coney Barrett -- the foundation of the administrative state thrown into chaos -- and a

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36:21

Law Firm Summer Bonuses Have Started... Will They...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/06/26

Also, the Supreme Court's really sticking it to the Fifth Circuit.----- We've got a few firms dipping into the summer bonus pool. But so far the pack hasn't followed them into the water. The Supreme Court continues to shoot down the Fifth Circuit, recognizing that politicians can't use false arrests to squelch free speech and using the Circuit to exorcise -- just a little -- their Second Amendment hangover. Is there anything normal about the YSL trial? The answer is no.

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40:39

New Law School Rankings And Old Supreme Court Drama

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/06/20

We talk about finding the right law school for you, and wonder how deep the SCOTUS drama goes.----- The Above the Law Top 50 Law Schools ranking is here and this year it's putting power in the hands of the users. Meanwhile at the Supreme Court, ACB tells her colleagues that not every legal problem is a job for bad history. Sam and Martha-Ann Alito release Unplugged album, and it only took a matter of days into the Clarence Thomas Transparency Era for him to get caught covering up more gifts.

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33:22

Clarence Thomas Turned Supreme Court Service Into An...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/06/12

Except ATM machines have limits.----- When ProPublica first reported that Clarence Thomas had taken half a million in gifts, it turns out they had only scratched the surface. New financial disclosures and some number-crunching from Fix the Court show that Thomas has taken over $5 million in gifts and likely gifts. Meanwhile, Ketanji Brown Jackson got roughly Beyonce tickets with a roughly $4000 face value. Meanwhile, there's a summer associate taking a horse and carriage to work and Columbia Law

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38:47

Trump's Lawyers Somehow Doing A Worse Job On TV Than...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/06/05

The Trump conviction excuse tour is not going well for his attorneys.----- Donald Trump is now a convicted felon and everyone wants to know why his attorneys phoned in the defense. They... don't have good answers. At all. Continuing the Trump beat, Judge Aileen Cannon continued to display a delicate mix of cynical obstinance and outright incompetence, slow-playing a motion to keep Trump from publicly lying about the FBI and then asking for briefing on how the Supreme Court's CFPB case impacts the

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31:31

Sam Alito's In Distress Of His Own Making

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/05/29

An appeal to common sense is denied.----- You might have thought flying a flag upside after January 6 would be the only "Sam Alito w/10 flag" story of the week, but you'd be wrong. The justice followed it up with another flag tied to the riots and got appropriately roasted over it all by Elena Kagan. Biglaw always paid well, but with partners crossing the $20 million compensation barrier, the structure of Biglaw inevitably shifts to accommodate the new normal. And a law school deals with the most

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36:31

You're A Grand Old Flag, You're An Upside-Down Flag

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/05/22

Now, this is a story all about how Sam Alito's wife got flipped-turned upside down.----- Sam Alito flew his flag upside down in the aftermath of the insurrection. He doesn't deny that, but he blames his wife for it. Dames, amirite? Aside from the obvious ethical issues implicated by having a Supreme Court justice visibly light in the "defending the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic" department, why is Alito so objectively bad at responding to his scandals? Next thing you know,

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33:24

Trump Defense Team Playing Tiddlywinks At A Chess Match

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/05/15

Trump's attorneys seems as asleep at the switch as their client. ----- Having called Stormy Daniels a liar repeatedly in its opening, the Trump defense team was then shocked and appalled that the prosecution elicited testimony to rehabilitate her credibility. The hits didn't stop there as they attempted to get out of the mess they'd landed in by sex shaming someone whose sexuality is their whole business. Trump lawyers do a lot better when the judge is running their defense. Meanwhile, an

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38:23

The Gag Order Pt. 10

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/05/08

Donald Trump, Drake, And James Ho... punchlines write themselves. ----- Donald Trump's trial shenanigans continue. Is he going to violate the gag order again? It seems inevitable but... our prediction might shock you! But even if his unfiltered "Truthing" is behind him, there are so many other ways to show contempt of court. And a busy week in Morningside Heights as Columbia Law School students ask school to cancel exams in light of campus unrest, or at a minimum convert its optional pass/fail model

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29:15

The First Law Of Whoever Smelt It, Dealt It

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/05/01

The New York courtroom where Donald Trump is on trial is apparently unpleasant. Is that the former president's doing? The world may never know. Also, the fact that the racists are coming for Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson isn't surprising -- but who gave them the green light? And, a judge learns a valuable lesson about hot mics and why you should always assume someone is listening.

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38:20

Alienating The Judge And Jury Seems Like A Bold...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/04/24

Let's see if it pays off as well as a billionaire covering up an affair.----- Donald Trump's hush money trial kicks off after a week of Trump alienating everyone involved in the process by refusing to respect basic decorum and attempting to skirt the gag order by arguing that RTs aren't endorsements. The Am Law 100 is also out and we talk through some of the key takeaways and Judge Ho tried to defend his take on forum shopping and it's... not good.

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39:49

A Big Week For Not Knowing The Law

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/04/17

We continue breaking down the U.S. News & World Report law school rankings and the chaos that its new methodology introduced. And we know exactly who to blame for breaking these rankings. Elon Musk recently went in for a deposition defended by Quinn Emanuel's Alex Spiro and earned a motion for sanctions. And a Berkeley Law protest goes viral, but all the "free speech" talk misses the mark.

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32:25

US News Rankings Continue Slide Into Bonkerstown

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/04/10

Haphazard ranking serves as a reminder that service hasn't quite found the right formula after law schools started withdrawing their data. _______________ The full U.S. News & World Report law school rankings are out and they are... something. Duke is tied with Harvard? NYU nearly drops out of the top 10? Are we just hurling darts at a dartboard here? In a sense, yes. At least ever since law schools started withdrawing their cooperation. Meanwhile, a Biglaw firm tried to promote healthy sleep

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