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PODCAST

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE"s Nico Perrino. New episodes post every other Thursday.

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All Episodes

01:14:19

Ep. 256: Ten arguments against free speech

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/10/30

We tackle ten common arguments against free speech. FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE Senior Fellow and former ACLU President Nadine Strossen are the co-authors of the new book, "War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech—And Why They Fail." Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:18 Book's origins 04:25 Argument #1: Words are violence 20:27 Argument #2: Words are dangerous 25:09 Argument #3: Hate speech isn't free speech 31:06 Argument #4: About shoutdowns 37:18 Argument #5: Free speech is

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40:03

Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/10/15

FIRE Senior Scholar Sarah McLaughlin discusses her new book, “Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:17 Book origins 03:38 How China censored speech on American campuses 18:36 COVID’s impact for international students’ speech 22:05 What is sensitivity exploitation? 25:35 Free speech at international satellite campuses 31:28 Attempted deportations of Mahmoud Khalil and Rümeysa Öztürk

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48:04

Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC?

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/09/30

What is the Federal Communications Commission, and why does its chairman think the agency can regulate Jimmy Kimmel’s jokes? Note: Shortly after recording this episode, Nexstar and Sinclair announced they would return “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” to their stations. Joining us: Anna Gomez, FCC Commissioner Ronnie London, FIRE General Counsel Bob Corn-Revere, FIRE Chief Counsel Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:46 What’s the FCC? 07:35 What’s the “public interest” standard? 14:20 What is the “fairness

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01:05:16

Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/09/16

FIRE staff also take your questions on Charlie Kirk's assassination, President Trump's lawsuit against The New York Times, cancel culture, and more. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:42 Attorney General Pam Bondi's comments that "hate speech" is distinct from "free speech" 02:23 Is it OK for the Department of Justice to target people for "hate speech"? 05:42 How have “hate speech” laws played out overseas? 07:19 President Trump's response to Pam Bondi's “hate speech” remarks 08:50 Are “fighting words,”

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01:08:11

Ep. 252: America’s first free speech crisis — the...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/09/15

We’re joined by award-winning author, Charles (Charlie) Slack, to discuss his book, Liberty’s First Crisis: Adams, Jefferson and the Misfits Who Saved Free Speech. Slack focuses on the infamous Sedition Act of 1798, which sparked the first major controversy over freedom of speech in America. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro (including note about Charlie Kirk) 03:59 Book origins 12:05 What were the Alien and Sedition Acts? 16:00 Prosecutions under the Act and their free speech implications 25:35 Free

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01:12:34

Ep. 251: Free speech and ‘the executive power’ with...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/09/04

What are the limits of presidential power? How many days has it been since President Trump’s TikTok ban moratorium went into place? What is the state of the conservative legal movement? And where did former FIRE president David French go on his first date? French and Sarah Isgur of the popular legal podcast “Advisory Opinions” join the show to answer these questions and discuss the few free speech issues where they disagree with FIRE. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:18 Origin story of “Advisory

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57:04

Ep. 250: Civil rights, hate speech, and the First...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/08/28

We know the First Amendment protects hate speech. But has it always done so? And how have civil rights groups responded when their members are the target of hate speech? University of Iowa Law Professor Samantha Barbas is the author of a new law review article, “How American Civil Rights Groups Defeated Hate Speech Laws.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:04 “The Birth of a Nation” movie controversy 12:44 Henry Ford’s anti-Semitic “Dearborn Independent” 22:41 American Jewish Committee’s “quarantining”

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01:08:50

Ep. 249: FIRE Reacts — Where does Harvard go from...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/08/12

2025 has not been kind to Harvard. To date, the Trump administration has revoked nearly $3 billion in research funding to the university, demanding violations of free speech, academic freedom, and institutional autonomy in return for restoring the funding. In response, Harvard filed a lawsuit, raising First Amendment claims. Helping us unpack all things Harvard are: Larry Summers, President Emeritus, professor (Harvard) & advisory council member (FIRE) Greg Lukianoff, President & CEO (FIRE)

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50:42

Ep. 248: Commercial speech and the First Amendment

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/08/06

Imagine the government forcing you to label your all-natural milk product as “imitation.” Florida tried to make one dairy farm do just that, sparking a First Amendment question: Where’s the line between a business’s right to speak and protecting consumers from deception? In this episode, we explore how far free speech protections go for commercial speech with: Justin Pearson, managing attorney (Institute for Justice) Bob Corn-Revere, chief counsel (FIRE) Eugene Volokh, Thomas M. Siebel senior

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01:09:20

Ep. 247: Justin Amash

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/07/24

Throughout his career, former Congressman Justin Amash has been a strong advocate for freedom of speech, writing that “The value of free speech comes from encountering views that are unorthodox, uncommon, or unaccepted…Free speech is a barren concept if people are limited to expressing views already widely held.” In this special live episode, filmed in front of 200+ high schoolers attending FIRE’s Free Speech Forum at American University in Washington, D.C., Amash takes questions from the audience

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01:11:40

Ep. 246: Tech check — AI moratorium, Character AI...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/07/10

We’re checking in on the latest news in tech and free speech. We cover the state AI regulation moratorium that failed in Congress, the ongoing Character A.I. lawsuit, the Federal Trade Commission’s consent decree with Omnicom and Interpublic Group, the European Union’s Digital Services Act, and what comes next after the Supreme Court’s Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton decision. Guests: Ari Cohn — lead counsel for tech policy, FIRE Corbin Barthold — internet policy counsel, TechFreedom Timestamps:

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46:42

Ep. 245: The Supreme Court's decision in Free Speech...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/06/27

FIRE staff responds to the Court's decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton that addresses a Texas law requiring age verification for accessing certain sexual material online. Joining us: Will Creeley — Legal director Bob Corn-Revere — Chief counsel Ronnie London — General counsel Timestamps: 01:21 How the case wound up at the Supreme Court 06:57 Bob’s experience with arguing strict scrutiny in the courts 09:32 Ronnie’s perspective on the ruling 10:22 Brick + mortar stores vs. online sites 12:07

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01:06:27

Ep. 244: Censoring lawmakers, T-shirts, and seashells

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/06/05

We discuss the Supreme Court backing Maine lawmaker Laurel Libby, NPR filing suit against Trump, a years-long dispute over a student wearing a “there are only two genders” shirt, the Secret Service investigation into James Comey, the latest on Harvard vs. Trump, and more. Guests: Bob Corn-Revere — chief counsel, FIRE Lee Levine — former senior counsel, Ballard Spahr Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:34 Censure of Rep. Libby 07:02 Supreme Court shadow docket 13:53 NPR lawsuit against Trump admin 19:07

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59:40

Ep. 243: Heather Mac Donald on Trump and free speech

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/05/22

Heather Mac Donald discusses the Trump administration’s free speech record amidst its battles with higher ed, mainstream media, law firms, and more. Mac Donald is Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Her most recent book is “When race trumps merit: How the pursuit of equity sacrifices excellence, destroys beauty, and threatens lives.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:54 Mac Donald’s personal experience with being shouted down 05:34 Amy Wax, Carole Hooven, and other cancelled professors

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55:16

Ep. 242: Is cancel culture dead?

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/05/08

The co-authors of “The Canceling of the American Mind” discuss its new paperback release and where cancel culture stands a year and a half after the book’s original publication. - Greg Lukianoff — President and CEO of FIRE Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind" - Rikki Schlott — New York Post columnist Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind" Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:35 Origin of book 07:56 Definition of cancel culture 17:55 Mike Adams, canceled professor 23:51

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54:54

Ep. 241: The government’s money, the government’s rules?

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/04/23

Our guests today signed onto a statement by a group of 18 law professors who opposed the Trump administration’s funding threats at Columbia on free speech and academic freedom grounds. Since then, Northwestern, Cornell, Princeton, Harvard, and nearly 60 other colleges and universities are under investigation with their funding hanging in the balance, allegedly for violations of civil rights law. To help us understand the funding threats, Harvard’s recent lawsuit against the federal government, and

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01:05:13

Ep. 240: Is there a global free speech recession?

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/04/09

We travel from America to Europe, Russia, China, and more places to answer the question: Is there a global free speech recession? Guests: - Sarah McLaughlin: FIRE senior scholar, global expression - James Kirchick: FIRE senior fellow - Jacob Mchangama: FIRE senior fellow Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:52 Free speech global surveys 07:49 Freedom of expression deteriorating 11:43 Misinformation and disinformation 18:05 Russian state-sponsored media 24:55 Europe’s Digital Services Act 29:26 Chinese

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01:04:24

Ep. 239: Columbia University, Mahmoud Khalil, DEI,...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/03/27

We explore how censorship is impacting institutions — from universities to law firms to the Maine House of Representatives. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:40 Federal government cuts Columbia’s funding 16:57 Updates on the Mahmoud Khalil case 27:01 Ed Martin’s Georgetown letter 34:59 Trump targeting law firms 55:01 Maine House censure of Rep. Laurel Libby 01:03:37 Outro Guests: - Will Creeley, FIRE’s legal director - Conor Fitzpatrick, FIRE’s supervising senior attorney - Lindsie Rank, FIRE’s director

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39:26

Ep. 238: On Mahmoud Khalil

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/03/18

First Amendment lawyer Marc Randazza and immigration lawyer Jeffrey Rubin join the show to discuss the arrest, detention, and possible deportation of green card holder Mahmoud Khalil. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:53 Latest updates on Khalil 02:51 First Amendment implications 06:08 Legal perspectives on deportation 11:54 Chilling effects on free expression 21:06 Constitutional rights for non-citizens 24:03 The intersection of free speech and immigration law 27:02 Broader implication of immigration

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01:04:48

Ep. 237: A tech policy bonanza! The FCC, FTC, AI...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2025/03/12

Does a cat stand on two legs or four? The answer to that question may tell you all you need to know about the government involving itself in social media content moderation. On today’s show, we cover the latest tech policy developments involving the Federal Communications Commission, Federal Trade Commission, AI regulation, and more. Guests: - Ari Cohn, FIRE’s lead counsel, tech policy. - Adam Thierer, a resident technology and innovation senior fellow at the R Street Institute - Jennifer

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260 results

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