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PODCAST

Frank and Stan Chats

Frank Norris and Stan Johnson

Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two

education

All Episodes

47:58

Frank and Stan Chat No. 156: The James Eldon Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/07/01

This week the two gents chat to James Eldon, Principal at Manchester Academy, a member of the Headteachers' Roundtable and advocate for the thinking around the recently announced MBacc. The chat begins with Stan reflecting on the power of Ministers in ordering or demanding that Ofsted inspects a school where a story about a student identifying as a Cat ran wild in newspapers recently. James considers the implications of this event on the most senior leader in the school and why these issues hinder

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33:47

Frank and Stan Chat No. 155: The Lucy Truman Returns...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/06/23

This week our chat needed a quick change of plan. The planned guest was unable to join us but fortunately, Lucy Trueman Founder and CEO of TruemanChange Ltd was available. Having been a guest three times previously Lucy knew the ropes so we just ploughed into the weekly education chat. Stan considered the events in parliament and how he felt that a clearer sign of collective responsibility across the House would have been helpful. He related the issue to governing bodies formally agreeing to a

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48:23

Frank and Stan Chat No.154: The Debbie Clinton Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/06/18

Following a week's break Frank and Stan Chat is back with Debbie Clinton as their guest. A former secondary school Headteacher in the NE, ex HMI and former CEO of a multi academy trust in the Midlands Debbie now supports a variety of schools around the country. The chat takes place following the resignation of Boris Johnson, the announcement by Ofsted that they are tweaking their school inspection arrangements and the distressing events in Nottingham when two university students and a school

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36:38

Frank and Stan Chat No.153: The Dr Rebecca Lawton...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/06/02

A fascinating guest this week and a focus on her Doctoral thesis into the uniqueness, or otherwise of Ofsted reports. Rebecca considered how language in the reports led to subsequent improvements in outcomes, were there any emerging trends, any influencing factors that affected language or impact and within the area for improvement were there any particularly effective or impactful phrases that drove improvement. It is a very important piece of research and makes clear Ofsted reports are far from

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37:05

Frank and Stan Chat No.152: The Shaheen Myers Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/05/27

This week Shaheen Myers, Deputy Director of Learning for Leeds City Council joins the guests and highlights issues around mental health and wellbeing for senior leaders. Stan chips in with thoughts about Ofsted while Shaheen considers the impact of variability within inspections on the confidence and sense of belonging for senior leaders. Frank shares some research he's undertaken on how schools are advertising vacancies and how they might need to up their game. The gents agreed to invite Shaheen

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34:28

Frank and Stan Chat No.151: The Eddie Czestochowoski...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/05/19

This week the two gents are joined by Eddie Czestochowski, founder and Managing Director of Cell Pack Solutions Ltd, a battery manufacturer based in the North east. In addition to having a busy working life Eddie is also a keen chess player and is encouraging children and young people to begin playing the game. Whether it is opening a chess club in a local library or going into schools to teach the game Eddie is on a mission to get every school playing chess. Stan kicks off the chat with some

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40:45

Frank and Stan Chat No.150: The Russell Harvey...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/05/12

When we started Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020 we never imagined we would get to episode 5 but here we are at edition 150! And we are breaking new ground by having the brilliant Russell Harvey, the Resilience Coach as our guest for the third time. No other guest has managed that....yet! This week Stan wonders whether the Speaker of the House of Commons is actually a supply teacher. Russell then considers how powerful small acts of kindness are and points to research that backs up his view. Frank

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43:02

Frank and Stan Chat No.149: The Prof Jackie Carter...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/05/05

We are fortunate to have many amazing guests on our weekly chat. This week we are joined by Prof Jackie Carter from University of Manchester. It is a thoroughly enjoyable chat. Jackie offers some amazing insights into her own education journey and how these have influenced the work she undertakes with undergraduates. She strongly believes that tech and digital industries needs to include greater diversity of thought and much of this can come from those interested in social sciences rather than just

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35:25

Frank and Stan Chat No.148: The Ed Dorrell Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/04/28

Every now and again Frank and Stan are able to invite a colleague who has gained a national profile and provides a broader insight. This is such a week. We were delighted to spend 35 minutes or so chatting to Ed Dorrell, the Director of Public First and former Deputy Editor of the TES. Stan gets things moving by referring to a recent NFER report that explains how senior leaders are having to cut into their budgets to balance the books. The impact appears to include fewer Teaching Assistants and

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41:51

Frank and Stan Chat No.147: The Andy Stanier Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/04/21

Ofsted trying to salvage some reputation from a miserable and depressing few weeks/months and the Deputy Prime Minister resigning are all announced just hours and minutes prior to this week's recording of the Frank and Stan Chat. So, clearly alleged bullying, safeguarding and other inspection related issues are covered. There was also enough time to reflect on how leaders manage their teams and how this helps them through crises. And Stan has some great family news. It's certainly a humdinger of an

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51:41

Frank and Stan Chat No.145: The Maeve Birchall,...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/04/10

This week the two gents chat to Maeve Birdsall and Jasmine Priestley again. They are joined this time by Claire Clithero. All three guests are strongly influenced by Reggio Emilia philosophy. This approach was developed in Northern Italy and continues today. It is an approach to teaching, learning and advocacy for children and in its most basic form, is a way of observing what children know, are curious about and what challenges them. Stan kicks off the chat considering what the government's vision

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37:25

Frank and Stan Chat No.144: The Adrian Gray Returns...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/03/30

This week the two gents chat to Adrian Gray, a former senior HMI, who led the Challenge and Analysis Team at Ofsted when Frank was leading on school, Early Years and ITE Frameworks. Adrian was always looking for particular issues that had not been detected before. This made him very useful in identifying weaknesses in Frameworks and their delivery. He is a historian and geographer and has produced a number of interesting videos based on his local area in East England. Anyway, this chat focuses on

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44:09

Frank and Stan Chat No.143: The Carolyn Eyre Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/03/27

Carolyn Eyre is a safeguarding consultant who worked for the trust Frank led. Her guest appearance had been planned for months but it is timely as it follows the recent publication of the Ofsted report at Cavendish Primary School. The chat considers how safeguarding requirements have changed over the past decade and why variability in the approaches of inspectors makes it difficult to determine inspection outcomes. Carolyn is one of the best informed safeguarding colleagues and is passionate about

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43:35

Frank and Stan Chat No.142: The Anne Morris Returns...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/03/27

This week with Stan away Frank undertakes the chat with Susan Breckell, a regular guest on the show. The guest is Anne Morris, Founder and CEO of Yipiyap, a longstanding tutoring organisation that employs students on gap years to work with pupils in secondary schools and Colleges. Anne explains how Yipiyap has grown and how it remained positive despite some setbacks in getting accredited to the National Tutoring Programme. All is well now, and the number of students it supports is at record levels

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40:49

Frank and Stan Chat No.141: The Jonny Uttley Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/03/13

The latest guest on the Frank and Stan Chat is Jonny Uttley, the CEO of The Education Alliance. The gents have been trying hard to secure Jonny as a guest because he is noted for his principled and value laden approach to leadership. The chat starts with Stan reflecting on the recent death of Bill Tidy, a longstanding cartoonist who worked for The Mirror. Jonny then considers the possible impact of Bridget Phillipson's keynote at the ASCL conference a few days ago. He focuses in on the

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35:52

Frank and Stan Chat No.140: The Headrest Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/03/10

A very special and important Frank and Stan Chat this week. Following the recent publication of the Annual Report from Headstart, the support network for senior school and trust leaders, the gents chat to key members of the organisation, Ros McMullen and Peter Crockett. These colleagues have played crucial roles in establishing, developing and maintaining Headrest and offer quite worrying and at times disturbing insights into the calls they receive. We have produced 140 editions of Frank and Stan

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37:20

Frank and Stan Chat No.138: The Zaitoon Bukhari Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/02/28

This week the two gents chat to Zaitoon Zukhari, a former Science teacher who has now become a leading educator for digital education within her trust and also for Google in the UK. Zaitoon explains how she led the transformation of learning and the introdcution of digital devices for pupils and students across the trust she works for. We havent forgotten the popular 'What's caught your eye?' slot so Stan chips in with a view on the lack of national guidance regarding what is an acceptable reason

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34:31

Frank and Stan Chat No.137: The Dan Worsley Returns...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/02/17

This week's Frank and Stan Chat is slightly different. The two gents have invited Dan Worsley, a children's author who previously worked in a Blackpool primary school, to return for a chat in the build up to World Book day in early March. The chat has been created to enable schools who cannot secure an author to find out how they come up with their ideas, how they develop them and how many times they revise the writing before the book is published. Dan is an extraordinary guest and this chat allows

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37:14

Frank and Stan Chat No.136: The Professor Mel Ainscow...

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/02/10

When we started the Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020 we never envisaged anything more than two ol' educationalists chatting about issues that caught our eyes recently. Now, after 136 editions we have to pinch ourselves when we consider how lucky we have been to have so many brilliant guests joining our chats. This week is no exception and we were blown away with the issues considered by Mel Ainscow. He explains how his focus on equity has led to him contributing to education research that has

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38:07

Frank and Stan Chat No.135: The Peter Wright Edition

Frank and Stan Chats ·

2023/02/03

This week the two gents discover the world of Ancient Civilisation and how it is becoming increasingly popular together with the teaching of Latin. Peter Wright from Blackpool 6th Form College explains vividly how he is exciting a wide range of students and encouraging more and more to study his area of expertise. The chat is truly an education for Frank and Stan as both have a shallow understanding of Ancient History and no knowledge of Latin. When the chat gets on to recent education matters Stan

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