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PODCAST

Scaling Laws

Lawfare & University of Texas Law School

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation

government politics

All Episodes

53:56

The Disinformation Industrial Complex

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

This week on our Arbiters of Truth series on our online information ecosystem, we’re going to be talking about … disinformation! What else? It’s everywhere. It’s ruining society. It’s the subject of endless academic articles, news reports, opinion columns, and, well, podcasts.Welcome to what BuzzFeed News reporter Joe Bernstein has termed “Big Disinformation.” In a provocativeessayin the September issue of Harper’s Magazine, he argues that anxiety over bad information has become a cultural

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57:25

Why the Taliban Can’t Use Facebook

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

When the Taliban seized power following the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan this month, major platforms like Facebook and Twitter faced a quandary. What should they do with accounts and content belonging to the fundamentalist insurgency that was suddenly running a country? Should they treat the Taliban as the Afghan government and let them post, or should they remove Taliban content under U.S. sanctions law?If you’re coming at this from the tech sphere, you may have been seeing conversation in

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1:00:19

Facebook Shuts Down Research On Itself

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

In October 2020, Facebooksent a cease and desist letterto two New York University researchers collecting data on the ads Facebook hosts on its platform, arguing that the researchers were breaching the company’s terms of service. The researchers disagreed and kept up with their work. On August 3, after months of failed negotiations, Facebookshut off accessto their accounts—an aggressive move that journalists and scholars denounced as an effort by the company to shield itself from transparency.For

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50:05

With Disinformation, The Past Isn’t Past

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

We live in the Disinformation Age. The internet has revolutionized our information ecosystem and caused disruption totally unprecedented in human history, and democracy may not survive. ... Just like it didn’t survive the television, radio, telegram and printing press before it. Right?When it comes to talking about the internet, all too often history is either completely ignored with bold claims about how nothing like this haseverhappened before—or it’s invoked with simple analogies to historical

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58:56

Facebook’s Thoughts on Its Oversight Board

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

There have been a thousand hot takes about the Facebook Oversight Board, the Supreme Court-like thing Facebook set up to oversee its content moderation. The Board generated so much press coverage when it handed down its decision on Donald Trump’s account that Kaitlyn Tiffany atThe Atlanticcalled the whole circus “likeShark Week,but less scenic.” Everyone weighed in, from Board Members, tolawmakers, academics, critics and evenLawfarepodcast hosts. But there’s a group we haven’t heard much from: the

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59:50

The FBI, Social Media and Jan. 6

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

The attempted insurrection on January 6 is back in the headlines. This week, the House select committee investigating the Capitol riot began its work with its very first hearing. So for our Arbiters of Truth series on our online information environment, Evelyn Douek interviewed Quinta Jurecic about social media’s role in warning of the riot. Specifically, they talked about anessay Quinta wrote inLawfareon the FBI’s failure to examine social media posts announcing plans to storm the Capitol—and how

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53:24

Facebook v. the White House: Renee DiResta and...

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

This week we're bringing you the breakdown of the heavyweight bout of the century—a battle over vaccine misinformation. In the left corner we have the White House. Known for its impressive arsenal and bully pulpit, this week it asked for the fight and came out swinging with claims that Facebook is a killer—and not in a good way. In the right corner we have Facebook, known for its ability to just keep taking punches while continuing to grace our screens and rake in the cash. The company has hit back

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1:00:06

Florida Man Regulates Social Media

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

On May 24, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed into law a bill designed to limit how social media platforms can moderate content. Technology companies, predictably, sued—and on June 30, Judge Robert Hinkle of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida granted a preliminary injunction against the law.Thelegislation, which purported to end “censorship” online by “big tech,” received a lot of commentary and a great deal of mockery from academics and journalists. Among other things,

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59:00

Can America Save the News?

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

The news business in America is in crisis. Between 2008 and 2019, newspapers in the U.S.lost half of their newsroom employees. Journalism jobs cut during the pandemic number in the tens of thousands. Local news is suffering the most, with cutbacks across the country and many communities left without a reliable source of information for what’s going on in their area.Why is this a crisis not just for journalists, but also for democracy?In today’s episode of our Arbiters of Truth series on the online

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1:06:57

Coordinating Inauthentic Behavior With Facebook’s...

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

This week on Arbiters of Truth, our podcast on our online information ecosystem, Evelyn Douek and Quinta Jurecic bring you an episode they’ve wanted to record for a while: a conversation with Nathaniel Gleicher, the head of security policy at Facebook. He runs the corner of Facebook that focuses on identifying and tackling threats aimed at the platform, including information operations.They discussed anew reportreleased by Nathaniel’s team on “The State of Influence Operations 2017-2020.” What kinds

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54:44

Information Operations, Then and Now

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/04

This week on Arbiters of Truth, our podcast on our online information ecosystem, Evelyn Douek and Quinta Jurecic spoke with Camille François, the chief innovation officer at Graphika, about anew reportreleased by her team earlier this month on an apparent Russian influence operation aimed at so-called “alt-tech” platforms, like Gab and Parler. A group linked to the Russian Internet Research Agency “troll farm” has been posting far-right memes and content on these platforms over the last year. But

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58:42

A TikTok Tick Tock

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

TikTok has rapidly become one of the most popular apps for teenagers across the world for dancing, lip-syncing and sharing details about their lives. But if you cast your mind back to last year—specifically, August 2020—you may recall that the app’s future in the United States suddenly fell into doubt. The Trump administration began arguing that the app’s ownership by the Chinese company ByteDance raised problems of national security for the United States. ByteDance was ordered to divest from

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59:05

The Empire (Facebook) Strikes Back (at the Oversight...

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

If you’ve listened to this show, you've probably read a fair number of news stories—and maybe even listened to some podcast episodes—about the Facebook Oversight Board’s recent ruling on the platform’s decision to ban President Trump’s account. The board temporarily allowed Facebook to keep Trump off the platform, but criticized the slapdash way Facebook made that call and provided a long list of recommendations for Facebook to respond to.Well, now Facebook has responded—announcing that it will ban

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59:49

The Arrival of International Human Rights Law in...

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

Way back at the beginning of the Arbiters of Truth podcast series on our online information ecosystem, Evelyn Douek and Quinta Jurecic invited David Kaye to talk about international human rights law (IHRL) and content moderation. David is a clinical professor of law at the University of California, Irvine, and when he was first on the show, he was also the United Nations Special Rapporteur on freedom of expression. It’s been a year and a half since then, and in the intervening time, David’s vision

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1:00:03

The Christchurch Call, Two Years On

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

In March 2019, a shooter carried out two mass killings at mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, livestreaming the first shooting on Facebook. Two months later, New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and French President Emmanuel Macron convened the Christchurch Call—a commitment joined by both governments and technology companies “to eliminate terrorist and violent extremist content online.”It’s now been two years since the Christchurch Call. To discuss those years and what comes next, Evelyn

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45:44

The Disinformation Nextdoor

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

This week on Arbiters of Truth, theLawfare Podcast's series on our online information ecosystem, Evelyn Douek and Quinta Jurecic spoke with the journalist Will Oremus, who until recently was a senior writer at the technology publication OneZero and who is one of the most astute observers of online platforms and their relationship to the media. They dug into Will’sreportingon the social media platform Nextdoor. The app is designed to connect neighbors, but Will argues it’s filling the space left by

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44:39

The Facebook Oversight Board Rules on Trump

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

The wait is over. Four months after Facebook indefinitely banned Donald Trump from its platform following the Capitol riot, the Facebook Oversight Board—the platform’s self-appointed quasi-court—has weighed in on whether or not it was permissible for Facebook to do so. And the answer is ... complicated. Mark Zuckerberg can still keep Trump off his platform for now, but the board says that Facebook must review its policies and make a final decision about the former president’s fate within six

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59:09

Israel’s 'Cyber Unit' and Extra-legal Content Take-downs

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

Odds are, you probably haven’t heard of the Israeli government’s “Cyber Unit,” but it’s worth paying attention to whether or not you live in Israel and the Palestinian territories. It’s an entity that, among other things, reaches out to major online platforms like Facebook and Twitter with requests that the platforms remove content. It’s one of a number of such agencies around the globe, which are known as Internet Referral Units. Earlier in April, the Israeli Supreme Court gave a green light to the

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55:14

The Challenges of Audio Content Moderation

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

This week on Arbiters of Truth, theLawfare Podcast’s miniseries on our online information ecosystem, Evelyn Douek and Quinta Jurecic talked to Sean Li, who until recently was the head of Trust and Safety at Discord. Discord is experiencing phenomenal growth and is an established player in a space that is the new hot thing: audio social media. And as the head of Trust and Safety, Sean was responsible for running the team that mitigates all the bad stuff that happens on a platform.Evelyn and Quinta

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55:49

Twitter, Facial Recognition and the First Amendment

Scaling Laws ·

2022/02/03

This week on Arbiters of Truth, theLawfare Podcast’s miniseries on our online information ecosystem, Evelyn Douek and Quinta Jurecic spoke with Jameel Jaffer and Ramya Krishnan of the Knight First Amendment Institute.What do facial recognition software and President Trump’s erstwhile Twitter habits have in common? They both implicate the First Amendment—and hint at how old doctrines struggle to adapt to new technologies.Evelyn and Quinta talked to Jameel and Ramya about the long-running lawsuit by

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