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PODCAST

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Legal Talk Network

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law"s Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

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All Episodes

29:27

No More Room In This World For Two Ampersands

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/11/01

Stroock strikes out. -------------- We thought the end might be near for Stroock & Stroock & Lavan when we recorded this episode. We were right. And with that, the Biglaw world moves to exclusively one or fewer ampersands. A senior lawyer tried to pull a prank on an airplane. It ended badly. And we discuss the last time newly elected Speaker of the House Mike Johnson tried to run something. It was a law school and it failed in epic fashion.

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29:54

But, Maybe, Logic Games Were… Good?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/10/25

LSAT's decision is not totally... illogical. ----------- The LSAT is ditching logic games from upcoming tests and the Above the Law gang is conflicted over whether or not that's a good thing. There's a good argument that the section disproportionately disadvantaged folks with vision issues. On the other hand that was a deficiency that admissions could address on the back end, but without that score schools no longer have a pattern recognition evaluation -- and what's more "thinking like a lawyer"

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26:52

Dispatches From The End Of Analog Lawyering

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/10/11

A Clio Cloud Conference roundup. ----- Joe checks in from the 2023 Clio Cloud Conference joined by Legaltech News editor-in-chief Stephanie Wilkins, dean of legal tech journalism Bob Ambrogi, and Legal Talk Network producer Laurence Colletti to talk about legal technology and the small law market. We talk artificial intelligence, hot legal trends, and access to justice.

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25:56

One Day You're Getting Cold Called And The Next Day...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/10/04

Also Donald Trump's lawyers continue making mistakes. ----- Donald Trump's attorneys don't have a leg to standing on. Get it? They keep making bad standing arguments and the judge has now threatened sanctions. A former prosecutor arrested in road rage incident because... Florida man. Meanwhile, a judge has stopped hearing cases after he started "spraying bullets" in road rage. Though he says he really doesn't remember it -- you know, how gunfights just slip your mind. And we welcome the return of

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31:28

It Was Only A Matter Of Time Before We Had To Talk...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/09/27

This week we chat about the First Amendment, sexual harassment, and, yet again, Blackface in the legal community. ----- Most Americans don't understand the First Amendment... just like Amy Coney Barrett! More sexual harassment allegations in Biglaw, which gives us an opportunity to consider the impact of senior attorneys coming forward to prompt change. And, yes, there is talk about Blackface at the end because it sadly keeps coming up.

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31:28

Fifth Circuit Gets Way More Originalist Than You...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/09/20

Sam Alito might be citing witchhunters from the 1600s as authority on the meaning of the Constitution, but the Fifth Circuit is taking it a step further and fighting over how the Bible might interpret a statute governing class action lawsuits. The MyPillow guy lost his composure in a video deposition for all the world to see. Probably had a bad night's sleep on some lumpy pillows. And it was quite the worrying summer for law students. Summer associates don't trust that they're going to get full-time

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32:48

Biglaw Firm Offers Racy, Expensive Summer Event...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/09/13

In our latest chat, we discuss Biglaw strip club outings, Jeff Clark taking time away from his indictment to be an idiot online, and associates unhappy with a law firm's office tracker. ----- Gunderson Dettmer got a lot of flack on Reddit from folks accusing the firm of hosting a summer event at a strip club. It wasn't a strip club, but it was a nightclub with scantily clad go-go dancers, which doesn't make it much better from the perspective of a harassment-free work environment. And after making

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36:59

Amy Coney Barrett Wants Her Cake And To Enact...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/09/06

Also, how to create a culture that welcomes Biglaw vacations. ------ Amy Coney Barrett recently spoke publicly about how she longs for the days when most Americans couldn't recognize Supreme Court justices, highlighting that justices don't have to be there long for a culture of unaccountability to set in. Speaking of which, the majority of Clarence Thomas's former clerks signed an open letter shrugging off his ethical problems. But the real question is... did any of them bother to read a draft

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28:40

The Law, The Law! It's Chock Full Of Clowns. Dubious...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/08/30

A little Broadway for this week's title. ----- Law firm productivity is down, but are we really worried about that? It's a traditional harbinger of layoffs, though something about this market feels a bit different. Meanwhile, a right-wing advocacy group has sued a pair of Biglaw firms for offering fellowship programs aimed at improving diversity -- offering a lesson in forum shopping along the way. Finally, former ASS Law professor Joshua Wright brought a defamation suit against former students for

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28:57

What In The World Is James Ho Thinking?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/08/23

The Fifth Circuit judge made a bunch of headlines last week and we jump into all of them. Plus Texas's use of water saws and Ron De Santis isn't faring well in his battle with Disney. (Always bet on Mickey.)

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31:06

Well, The Jerk Store Called...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/08/16

And they're running out of a bunch of lawyers. A surprising level of jerk content this week as we discuss the value of real Jamaican jerk seasoning, Clarence Thomas getting his RV financed by a health care executive, Alan Dershowitz complaining about his neighbors, and Judge Aileen Cannon botching straightforward criminal law (more than once).

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31:40

Supreme Court's Bitter Battle Over Ethics

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/08/09

Elena Kagan and Samuel Alito have... very different takes on judicial ethics and what Congress's role is in all of it. Plus, Lindsey Graham has a change of heart about a federal judge because it's politically expeditious. And a deep dive into starting salaries for attorneys.

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30:30

So, Are We Just Ignoring The Supreme Court Now?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/08/02

Alabama is just straight up defying the Supreme Court on election law... but when liberals propose the same thing all of a sudden it's a crisis for the rule of law. I see how that goes. Also a hard-working Biglaw staffer gets caught up in a political backlash to what seems like an honest misunderstanding. And law students have no freaking idea what they're in for.

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29:43

Gunners Gonna Gun -- Even On Their Wedding Day

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/07/26

For real though, don't mention your law school rank in your wedding vows. You may think it cute but literally no one else does. Clarence Thomas has been workin that lifetime tenure racket from the very beginning. And ,careful what you post on social media, unless, of course you just enjoy having to go through the same trial multiple times.

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34:54

'Supreme Court Ethics' Achieves Oxymoron Status

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/07/19

Also more mandatory office policies and a brief primer on the Federal Circuit controversy. The Supreme Court's ethical lapses reached such heights that a fellow federal judge had to step in to publicly ask what's wrong with these people. And it's not just the big ticket scandals anymore, with the Court's reputation so tarnished that folks freak out over non-scandals (or at the most minor ones) like Venmogate and Sonia's Book Club. Meanwhile, more Biglaw firms opt for a 4-day mandatory office

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34:50

Elon Musk Is Having A Very Litigious Week

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/07/12

Between threatening Facebook and suing Wachtell, the Chief Twit is pretty active. We also talk about the end of the Supreme Court Term and the struggles in bar prep. ------ Elon Musk is desperately seeking a win and if he can't get it in a cage match against Mark Zuckerberg, he'll try his hand in court. Spoiler: it's going to go just about as badly. He's sent a legal threat to Facebook that fails to articulate much in the way of a legal issue and now he's suing Wachtell for being the lawyers that

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38:35

Justice Alito Doth Protest Too Much

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/06/28

More Supreme Court scandal news as Justice Samuel Alito tried to run out ahead of a ProPublica report with his own Wall Street Journal pre-rebuttal. We're all for confronting your problems head on, but Alito only managed to make himself look worse. A judge in D.C. sides against a man with a marijuana prescription because his neighbor didn't like it. So much for property rights. And we discuss the new Above the Law Top Law Schools ranking for the year!

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35:35

This Is Why You Need To Pay Your Lawyers

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/06/21

Because someday you might face massive espionage charges... or something. Donald Trump is struggling to find representation in his multi-count federal criminal case and it shows because he just can't stop saying incredibly damaging stuff about his case. Like how he will plead guilty for money. This is what happens after decades developing a reputation for stiffing attorneys. We also have more layoffs from Orrick and Reed Smith -- what can we glean from these moves? And a Massachusetts court expanded

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33:17

Donald Trump Got Indicted For Toilet Espionage But We...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/06/14

When you think about it, is a deputized bear really weirder than keeping classified documents in a bathroom with two chandeliers? Donald Trump got indicted since we last convened. And then the case got assigned to the same judge who got professionally scorched for trying to bail Trump out in the first place. Apparently he thinks the government pays people to plead guilty? It's all very weird. Davis Polk plays follow-the-leader with Skadden and announces a 4-day in-office work week -- is this the

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36:08

Free Speech Hypocrisy, Hot Bench Troubles, And...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2023/06/07

Maybe the woman who called the cops on a Black birdwatcher should try using ChatGPT to make up some fake caselaw for her appeal because the real ones aren't helping. After a year of sword rattling that higher education is "hostile to free speech" because students don't appropriately sit quiet and absorb what speakers on stage are laying down, the media grandstanding came to a halt -- and in the case of the NY Post went into reverse -- amid calls to defund CUNY Law School over a speaker. Apparently

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