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PODCAST

Public Defenseless

Anyone paying attention can tell you that our criminal legal system is perpetuating cruelty and harm, but the complexity of the legal world overwhelms most people simply trying to get through another day. Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system. Like so many of

government politics

All Episodes

01:12:22

242 | Eve Primus: The Hollowing Out of Miranda...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/06/06

Today, Hunter is joined once again by University of Michigan Professor of Law Eve Primus. So far, Eve and Hunter have discussed Public Defender Systems, Structures, and how Law Schools can do better at getting students interested in Public Defense. However, today’s conversation is focused on her upcoming law review article about how courts around the country have eroded the famous Miranda warnings and what we can do about it. Guests: Eve Primus, Professor of Law, University of Michigan

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01:05:26

241 | Lucian Dervan: Why do Innocent People Plead...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/06/04

Today, Hunter is joined Lucian Dervan, Professor of Law and Director of Criminal Justice Studies at Belmont College and Founding Director of the Plea Bargaining Institute. For more than a decade, Lucian has been at the forefront of uncovering the troubling issues with America’s plea deal driven criminal legal system. Lucian founded the Plea Bargaining Institute in order to bring together the latest and greatest research and caselaw on plea bargaining to help people challenge our plea bargaining

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01:02:17

240 | Adrienne Johnson: Can Gwinnett County Muster...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/30

Today, Hunter is joined by another amazing guest from the Wren Collective, Adrienne Johnson. Today’s conversation is about their report on Public Defense in Gwinnet County, Georgia. While there is a state wide Public Defender in Georgia, Gwinnet County has been able to maintain its independence from the state system. If Public Defender’s in Gwinnett County want to maintain that independence, it is essential that they address some of the glaring problems in Public Defense that this report exposed.

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01:00:31

239 | Elisabeth Pollock and Devshi Mehrotra: How the...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/28

Today, Hunter is joined once again by Justice Text Co-Founder Devshi Mehrotra to discuss how Justice Text is helping Public Defender Office’s enter the digital era. This time, Devshi brought Elisabeth Pollock, Chief of the Champaign IL Public Defender Office, to talk about the serious digital overhaul Elisabeth undertook once she took charge of the office. Coming from the federal system, Elisabeth was used to a fully digital system, so it came as quiet a shock when Elisabeth realized that her new

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01:06:37

238 | Patricia Warth: The Budget Moves Threatening...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/23

Today, Hunter is joined once again by Patricia Warth, Director of the NY Office of Indigent Legal Services. This time, Hunter and Patricia discuss the in the weeds budget moves that are threatening vital programs in New York Public Defense. Specifically, they talk about the failing family court system and how a sweep up of funds may endanger an already struggling practice. Guests: Patricia Warth, Director, New York Office of Indigent Legal Services Resources: Coverage of the Fund Sweep

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55:36

237 | Galit Lipa: The Fight to Get California to View...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/21

Today, Hunter is joined by the newest State Public Defender of California, Galit Lipa. As discussed on previous episodes, California has a county based public defender system. As such, Galit and her office sit in a limited role to help train public defenders around the state. Following a law suit and several reports highlighting the failings of public defense in California, Galit and her team could prove to be a pivotal voice in rethinking the delivery of California public defense. Guests:

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01:17:48

236 | Molly Gilbert and Jason Schwarz: How Washington...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/16

Today, Hunter is joined by Molly Gilbert and Jason Schwarz to discuss the plan to implement Public Defender workload standards across the state of Washington. Despite not being a centralized Public Defender system, the Public Defenders of Washington, spurred by the State Supreme Court, figured out how to work with the state bar to get workload standards. As they sit on the verge of getting enforceable standards approved by the State Supreme Court, Hunter, Molly, and Jason explore how these workload

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01:01:14

235 | Taylor Herbert: The Many Ways Oregon's Civil...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/14

Today, Hunter is joined by Taylor Herbert, a Public Defender in Lan County Oregon to discuss civil commitment. As is often talked about on the show, the divide between the civil and criminal legal system is far smaller than many are willing to admit. Civil commitment is the process by which a person can be confined in a mental health facility against their will. Unlike a criminal process, which does not allow for you to be deprived of liberty unless you’ve been proven guilty beyond a reasonable

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01:02:46

234 | Stephen Hanlon: Case Withdrawals, Federal...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/09

Today, Hunter is joined once again by Public Interest lawyer Stephen Hanlon. This time, Hunter and Stephen are breaking down the five year plan that he hopes will fix Public Defense in Oregon. While it is surely an ambitious plan, this plan gives urges public defenders to do all that they can to force the powers that be to take the crisis seriously: case withdrawals. Guests: Stephen Hanlon, Public Interest Lawyer Resources: Oregon Report 5 Year Plan

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01:09:11

233 | Lee Wachocki: With Almost 3k People...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/07

Today, Hunter is once again joined by Lee Wachocki, a Public Defender and union leader in Portland, Oregon. As the Public Defender crisis continues in the state, this week is about figuring out how the state is responding. At the front line level, Lee reveals that little has functionally changed at his level to demonstrate the state is close to solving the problem. In fact, with Oregon recriminalizing drug possession, the state appears primed to super charge the issue. Guests: Lee Wachocki,

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01:13:01

232 | Robin Bernstein: The New York Prison that...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/05/02

Today, Hunter is joined Professor Robin Bernstein to discuss her newest book, Freeman's Challenge: The Murder that Shook America's Original Prison for Profit. When many of us think of the for-profit prisons, we think of the post slavery south at places like Parchman. However, that is not where the story started. Today, Robin joins the show to discuss Auburn State Prison and what we can learn from the history of for profit prisons. Guests: Robin Bernstein, Dillon Professor of American History

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01:01:44

231 | Dorsey Nunn: From Banning the Box to Restoring...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/30

Today, Hunter is joined by the powerful Dorsey Nunn. At 19, Dorsey was given a life sentence. Over the next 11 years, Dorsey would be exposed to violence, abuse, and the political education that would awaken in him a lifelong desire to fight our prison system. Today, Hunter talks with Dorsey about his new book, What Kind of Bird Can’t Fly to discuss his lifetime of organizing for the rights of the current and formerly incarcerated. Guests: Dorsey Nunn, Executive Director Legal Services for

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01:02:33

230: The Voices of Victims and Survivors that Alabama...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/25

Today, Hunter is joined once again by Leah Nelson of Alabama Appleseed. This time, they are joined by Callie Greer, a Community Navigator at Appleseed, to discuss Appleseed’s Afterward. This powerful report sought out to hear from victims and survivors of violence. As is often said on the show, the criminal legal system does a poor job of providing for the needs of all survivors of violence. In fact, the system often perpetuates the harm of those who need help following the tragic events in their

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01:26:38

229: From a 25% Vacancy Rate to Nearly Zero, How the...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/23

Today, Hunter is once again joined by Brett Schandelson, the Director of the Montana Office of the State Public Defender. Last time he was one, we discussed his efforts to make Public Defense policy in Montana driven by data. Today, we discuss how those efforts have drastically turned the state system around. Specifically, Brett details how doing a better job of tracking cases and sticking to a workload standard has reduced turnover and helped retain Public Defenders throughout the state. Guests:

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01:05:54

228: Why is this Vitally Important Forensic Science...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/18

Today, Hunter sat down with Dr. Shameka Stewart, a juvenile forensic speech language pathologist. While speech language pathologists have long been around, Dr. Stewart is the first person to take the field and apply it to juvenile forensics. The promise of the field was on display as she served as an expert witness for the defense team during the trial of Nikolas Cruz. For those in the criminal defense community, this under utilized forensic science could prove to be one of the most important

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01:07:44

227: *AUDIO FIXED* Where is the Ethical Limit for...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/16

Today, Hunter is once again joined by former NACDL President, Martin Sabelli. This time, Hunte and Martin are discussing a memo he put out while President about the Ahmaud Arbery murder trial. In that trial, Martin felt that the defense counsel improperly used racism as a tactic in their defense. Martin put out the memo because he felt that those in the criminal defense community, those who fight against systems of racism aught not use the tools of the very system that actively incarcerates so many

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01:02:57

226: Why Isn't a Cop Who was Indicted for Shooting an...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/11

Last summer, Hunter spoke with Central Florida criminal defense attorney Andrew Darling to discuss Governor DeSantis removing State Attorney Monique Worrell from office. At the time, Andrew and Hunter expressed their concerns that the primary reason for the removal was due to Worrell’s willingness to prosecute cops. Today, Andrew is back to share how those fears have come to reality. In 2020, Andrew’s client was shot by a cop. Originally, Worrell pursued the case, but with her gone, it took the new

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01:12:11

225: Why Are People Being Found Not Guilty but Still...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/09

Imagine for a moment, you have been accused of several crimes. At trial, you are found not guilty on all the charges except for one. Let’s say that this is least serious of all your charges. While you wish you had been acquitted on all charges, 5/6 is pretty good. You anticipate a minor sentence, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel….but then you get to sentencing, and the judge starts saying your sentence is going to be just as severe as it would have if you had been found guilty of

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01:06:56

224: How the DVSJA Gave Two Survivors of Domestic...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/04

Today, Hunter concludes the three-part series on criminalized domestic violence survivors by speaking with two women who survived, endured years of incarceration, and utilized the DVSJA to get a second chance at life. Trinity Copeland was sentenced to 25 years to life for 2nd degree murder and resentenced to time served and released in March 2023 under the Domestic Violence Survivors Justice Act (DVSJA), after serving approximately 11 years. She is currently a full-time college student majoring in

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01:05:14

223: The New York Law Giving a Second Chance to...

Public Defenseless ·

2024/04/03

Today, Hunter continues the three-part series on criminalized domestic violence survivors by speaking with Elizabeth Isaacs, an appellate attorney with New York’s Office of Indigent Legal Services. Specifically, the two discuss the Domestic Violence Survivor’s Justice Act, a New York law designed to give post-relief to those whose incarceration is related to their victimization. While certainly not a perfect bill, it is an extremely important and necessary step to understand that people are not

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