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PODCAST

Design Doc

Hannah Shaffer and Evan Rowland

Come along with Hannah and Evan in a living documentation of the game design process, from the first spark of an idea, to every disastrous surprise. It’s not an instruction manual, but a travel guide, with lots of unexpected stops along the way.

arts design

All Episodes

40:31

The Rules Tell a Story

Design Doc ·

2025/06/04

After you’ve made the rules, you need to decide how you’re going to tell them. The right rule in the wrong order can make all the difference! In this unscripted episode, we share our initial thoughts about how we want our next rulebook to start, how to include immersive writing without sacrificing clarity, and (for some reason) reminisce about spooky VHS covers we encountered as children. Links: Join the Turtlebun Discord:⁠⁠ https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz⁠⁠ Support our work on Patreon:⁠⁠

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47:27

Epilogues in Games

Design Doc ·

2025/05/21

Story endings are hard! The epilogue of a game not only has to logically wrap up the story and tie up any loose ends—it’s also the moment to reflect on how your character has grown over many sessions, and a moment for you as the player to feel like the time spent playing was worthwhile.In this episode, we talk about what makes roleplaying game epilogues special, and how we're approaching epilogue design in Escape from Wonderland. Episode Mentions: Return to Oz (1985 film) Fortunately (1964

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52:27

Balancing the Pendulum

Design Doc ·

2025/05/07

This week, we talk about the unpredictable mechanical swings that can happen between different versions of a game. Small tweaks to mechanics can trigger a cascade of unintended effects, causing the game design pendulum to swing from too many choices to too few and back again. We talk through examples of how we've managed these swings in Escape from Wonderland, and discuss our ongoing efforts to find the right balance.Links: Join the Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz Support our

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38:13

Now You're the Bad Guy

Design Doc ·

2025/04/23

We’re introducing a new dynamic to our latest roleplaying game! You all came to this amusement park as friends, but one of you started serving the park’s demonic forces. And things are about to get mean.How can characters become enemies while players remain friends? When the rules ask you to clash with you peers, care and consideration needs to be given to keeping the antagonism fun. Links: Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz Support Design Doc monthly on Patreon:

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60:10

Don’t Stop Making Art! (Feat. Joshua A.C. Newman)

Design Doc ·

2025/04/09

Hannah had to get a full time office job. Since then, finding the time and energy for creative work has been an uphill battle. In this episode, Hannah sits down with close friend and fellow game designer Joshua A.C. Newman to talk about life, art, and staying true to your values in trying times.Support Joshua’s work! https://www.patreon.com/joshua https://www.patreon.com/PunkPedagogy Links: Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/turtlebun Website:

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45:39

It’s My Playtest and I’ll Cry If I Want To

Design Doc ·

2025/03/26

Hannah and Evan discuss Wonderland's first four-player playtest. When a playtest goes wrong, it can be tricky to diagnose the cause. How much is due to the rules, and what's connected to the more subtle influence of mood and flow?Links: Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun Website: turtlebun.com Credits: Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/ Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/ Get in touch: Designdocpod

en

55:51

Pacing

Design Doc ·

2025/03/12

Slow and steady wins the race... but does it work in a one-session RPG? From what we've seen in Escape from Wonderland, not quite. In this episode, we discuss pacing in roleplaying games: from the moment players arrive at the table to leaving everyone feeling satisfied with the story's twists and turns. We dig into the challenge of building uncanny horror—where a slow burn creates the best dread—and whether it's possible to communicate that in a single sitting.Mentioned in this episode: Visioneers

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52:45

Insights and Secrets

Design Doc ·

2025/02/26

Sometimes a secret is worth more than gold. But how do you make concrete rules for something intangible? Hannah and Evan talk about the secrets of Wonderland and what to do when the rules are out of step with the story.Links/Credits: Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun Website: turtlebun.com Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/ Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/ Support Design Doc with a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc Get in touch: Designdocpod

en

44:33

Rewards and Prizes

Design Doc ·

2025/02/12

Even when things are going wrong for your characters, you as a player might feel rewarded by narrative twists and turns. In this episode, Hannah and Evan discuss the ways that games can reward both players and characters, and do some live game design about claw machine prizes...Links/Credits: Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun Website: turtlebun.com Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/ Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/ Support Design Doc with a

en

55:03

The Art of Perfect Art

Design Doc ·

2025/01/29

When people decide what art is worth looking at, they look for the very best. In a world that demands creative endeavors be perfect, how do we find the confidence to make and share our own art?Episode mentions: Olga Smirnova / Dutch National Ballet: https://www.operaballet.nl/en/dancers/olga-smirnova Toki Pona: https://tokipona.org/ A Mathematician's Lament by Paul Lockhart (essay): https://worrydream.com/refs/Lockhart_2002_-_A_Mathematician's_Lament.pdf The Jewish Wedding by Jovan Obican

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53:28

What Makes a Good Playtest?

Design Doc ·

2025/01/15

Is playtesting more of a science, or more art? How prepared should you be for a playtest if you're testing rules that might change on the fly, never to be seen again? In this episode we talk about playtesting our newest game, Escape from Wonderland, and how that went!Links/Credits: Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun Website: turtlebun.com Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/ Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/ Support Design Doc with a coffee:

en

44:44

When Mechanics Don't Match

Design Doc ·

2024/12/25

Our newest game, Escape from Wonderland, began as a hack of Questlandia. But what happens when the mechanics of an old game don't work with the story you want to tell? In this episode we talk about hacking games to do what we want them to do.Links: Support Design Doc on Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun Find our games at: turtlebun.com Credits: Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/ Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/ Get in touch: Designdocpod (at)

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42:49

Going Places! (or, Navigation Mechanics in Games)

Design Doc ·

2024/12/11

We often ask ourselves, "Do we need a mechanic for that?" In our newest game, Escape from Wonderland, we want to encourage players to travel across a haunted amusement park. How can the rules create meaningful choices about the places they should and shouldn't go? And when is it better to lose that choice, and end up somewhere randomized or predetermined? Join us as we navigate these questions and arrive in unexpected places!Links/Credits: Website: turtlebun.com Patreon:

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2:29

A Moment of Rest

Design Doc ·

2024/11/27

We're taking a week off to recharge! We'll see you back in two weeks with a new episode of Design Doc. Rest easy.Sincerely, Hannah and Evan Links/Credits: Website: turtlebun.com Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/ Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/ Support Design Doc with a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc Get in touch: Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com Turtlebun Discord:

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39:57

Finding Community Again

Design Doc ·

2024/11/13

We recently realized that we’ve drifted apart not just from our games community, but from our community at large. Now, in a world where the future feels uncertain and dire, we're asking ourselves: how do we reconnect?Escape from Wonderland has just one week left on Kickstarter. You can read more and back the project here. Links/Credits: Website: turtlebun.com Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/ Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/ Support Design

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44:23

Levels of Doneness

Design Doc ·

2024/10/29

The Kickstarter for Escape from Wonderland is LIVE! Support the game here!How do you know when a game is ready for Kickstarter? How far along should it be before bringing it to the world? In this episode, we talk about the delicate balance of presentation—slick, but not *too* slick; done, but not *too* done. We explored how crowdfunding has changed for small creators now that big, well-resourced companies are bringing their games to Kickstarter too. When faced with a rising standard of "doneness,"

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54:21

Judging a Book by Its Cover

Design Doc ·

2024/10/16

The first conversation we've had about cover design in games! We discuss how book covers are often the first thing people see of our games, how a well-designed cover can stick in someone's memory, and how a great cover isn't just about first impressions—it can make you want to pick up a book again and again.And a special thanks to our editor, Rob, for letting us know that yes, Scholastic Book Fairs do still exist. Link here: https://bookfairs.scholastic.com Covers mentioned: The Martian Chronicles

en

40:31

The Ideas You'll Be Buried With

Design Doc ·

2024/10/02

One of the hardest lessons in game design is coming to terms with the fact that many of our favorite ideas will remain unrealized. In this episode, we explore the games we may never complete, our lingering dream of bringing them to life, and how accepting their incompleteness might help us face the reality of death.Links/Credits: Website: turtlebun.com Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/ Episode edited by Rob Abrazado:

en

58:57

Designing a Spooky Game (Part 4): Finally, the Playtest

Design Doc ·

2024/09/18

Evan and Hannah try playing their new game with a very rough draft of the rules, in a cross between a playtest and design session. New ideas and new questions abound as they explore uncharted territory.To follow along with the design, Questlandia character sheets and reference rules can be downloaded for free here: https://turtlebun.com/pages/downloads Questlandia can be purchased

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58:34

The Pizza or the Basket? (Amusement Park Horror w/...

Design Doc ·

2024/09/04

We're joined by public historian and musical improviser Alanna Shaffer to discuss real-world amusement park horror and Dippin' Dots scams at Dorney Park.Alanna shares thoughts about story vs plot, new character drives, and everyone's personal breaking point after a day with no water. To see Alanna and Thank You, Places in person, check out their monthly improvised musical every last Thursday of the month at Tavern on Camac! Links/Credits: Website: turtlebun.com Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun Design

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