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PODCAST

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

The Gray Area with Sean Illing takes a philosophy-minded look at culture, technology, politics, and the world of ideas. Each week, we invite a guest to explore a question or topic that matters. From the the state of democracy, to the struggle with depression and anxiety, to the nature of identity in the digital age, each episode looks for nuance and honesty in the most important conversations of our time. New episodes drop every Monday. From the Vox Media Podcast Network.

society & culture philosophy

All Episodes

56:26

What "near death" feels like

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/06/02

Sebastian Junger came as close as you possibly can to dying. While his doctors struggled to revive him, the veteran reporter and avowed rationalist experienced things that shocked and shook him, leaving him with profound questions and unexpected revelations. In his book, In My Time of Dying, he explores the mysteries and commonalities of people’s near-death experiences.In this episode, which originally aired in May 2024, he joins Sean to talk about what it’s like to almost die and what quantum

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51:30

Machiavelli on how democracies die

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/05/26

Almost nothing stands the test of time. Machiavelli's writings are a rare exception.Why are we still talking about Machiavelli, nearly 500 years after his death? What is it about his political philosophy that feels so important, prescient, or maybe chilling today? In this episode, Sean speaks with political philosopher and writer Erica Benner about Niccolo Machiavelli’s legacy. The two discuss The Prince, Machiavelli’s views on democracy, and what he might say about the Trump administration

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60:40

Do you have moral ambition?

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/05/12

We’re told from a young age to achieve. Get good grades. Get into a good school. Get a good job. Be ambitious about earning a high salary or a high-status position.Some of us love this endless climb. But lots of us, at least once in our lives, find ourselves asking, "What’s the point of all this ambition?"Historian and author Rutger Bregman doesn’t think there is a point to that kind of ambition. Instead, he wants us to be morally ambitious, to measure the value of our achievements based on how

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55:41

The science of ideology

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/05/05

What do you do when you’re faced with evidence that challenges your ideology? Do you engage with that new information? Are you willing to change your mind about your most deeply held beliefs? Are you pre-disposed to be more rigid or more flexible in your thinking?That’s what political psychologist and neuroscientist Leor Zmigrod wants to know. In her new book, The Ideological Brain, she examines the connection between our biology, our psychology, and our political beliefs. In today’s episode,

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51:14

Politics after Covid

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/04/28

There are lots of stories to tell about the Covid pandemic. Most of them, on some level, are about politics, about decisions that affected people’s lives in different — and very unequal — ways.Covid hasn’t disappeared, but the crisis has subsided. So do we have enough distance from it to reflect on what we got right, what we got wrong, and what we can do differently when the next crisis strikes? Professor Frances E. Lee — co-author of In Covid's Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us — thinks we do. In

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54:49

Halfway there: a philosopher’s guide to midlife crises

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/04/21

Philosophy often feels like a disconnected discipline, obsessed with tedious and abstract problems. But MIT professor Kieran Setiya believes philosophical inquiry has a practical purpose outside the classroom — to help guide us through life’s most challenging circumstances. He joins Sean to talk about self-help, FOMO, and midlife crises.This episode originally aired in April 2024. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Kieran Setiya, author of Life Is Hard: How Philosophy Can Help Us Find Our

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57:40

Whatever this is, it isn’t liberalism

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/04/14

What exactly is the basis for democracy?Arguably Iiberalism, the belief that the government serves the people, is the stone on which modern democracy was founded. That notion is so ingrained in the US that we often forget that America could be governed any other way. But political philosopher John Gray believes that liberalism has been waning for a long, long time. He joins Sean to discuss the great liberal thinker Thomas Hobbes and America’s decades-long transition away from liberalism. Host:

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1:09

A new way to listen

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/04/11

We have an exciting announcement! Vox Members now get access to ad-free podcasts. If you sign up, you’ll get unlimited access to reporting on vox.com, exclusive newsletters, and all of our podcasts — including The Gray Area — ad-free. Plus, you’ll play a crucial role in helping our show get made.Check it out at vox.com/members. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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50:22

The beliefs AI is built on

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/04/07

There’s a lot of uncertainty when it comes to artificial intelligence. Technologists love to talk about all the good these tools can do in the world, all the problems they might solve. Yet, many of those same technologists are also warning us about all the ways AI might upend society, how it might even destroy humanity. Julia Longoria, Vox host and editorial director, spent a year trying to understand that dichotomy. The result is a four-part podcast series — called Good Robot — that explores the

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55:51

Stop comparing yourself to AI

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/03/31

Why do we keep comparing AI to humans?Jaron Lanier — virtual reality pioneer, digital philosopher, and the author of several best-selling books on technology — thinks that we should stop. In his view, technology is only valuable if it has beneficiaries. So instead of asking "What can AI do?," we should be asking, "What can AI do for us?" In today’s episode, Jaron and Sean discuss a humanist approach to AI and how changing our understanding of AI tools could change how we use, develop, and

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54:45

Democrats need to do something

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/03/24

American government has a speed issue. Both parties are slow to solve problems. Slow to build new things. Slow to make any change at all.Until now. The Trump administration is pushing through sweeping changes as fast as possible, completely changing the dynamic. And the Democrats? They’ve been slow to respond. Slow to mount a defense. Slow to change tactics. Still. Ezra Klein — writer, co-founder of Vox, and host of The Ezra Klein Show for the New York Times — would like to offer a course

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52:40

How to live in uncertain times

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/03/17

Humans hate uncertainty. It makes us feel unsafe and uneasy. We often organize our lives to avoid it. When it's foisted upon us, we don’t always know how to act.But writer and journalist Maggie Jackson argues that uncertainty can actually be good for us, and that we’re doing ourselves a disservice by avoiding it. She tells Sean that embracing uncertainty can spark creativity, improve problem solving skills, and help us lead better, more hopeful lives. This episode originally aired in January

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50:45

How to sink into silence

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/03/10

How often do you find silence? And do you know what to do with it when you do? Today’s guest is essayist and travel writer Pico Iyer. His latest book is Aflame: Learning From Silence, which recounts his experiences living at a Catholic monastery in California after losing his home in a fire. He speaks with Sean about the restorative power of silence, and how being quiet can prepare us for a busy and overstimulated world. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Pico Iyer, writer and author of Aflame:

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43:11

How to change your personality

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/03/03

If you could change anything about your personality, anything at all, what would it be?And why would you want to change it?Writer Olga Khazan spent a year trying to answer those questions, and documented the experience in her new book Me, But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change. In this episode Sean speaks with Olga about the science of personality change, the work it takes to change yourself, and what makes up a personality, anyway. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Olga

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38:15

Is ignorance truly bliss?

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/02/17

Are you ever happier not knowing something?As Aristotle famously claimed, “All human beings want to know.” But denial and avoidance are also human impulses. Sometimes they’re even more powerful than our curiosity. In this episode Sean speaks with professor Mark Lilla about when we’re better off searching for knowledge and when we’re better off living in the dark. Lilla’s new book is called Ignorance and Bliss: On Wanting Not to Know. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Mark Lilla, professor

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53:43

Is America broken?

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/02/10

What do you think of America’s institutions?Alana Newhouse, founder and editor-in-chief of Tablet Magazine, says that may be the most important political question in America. In an essay published more than two years ago, Newhouse argued that there is a new political divide, one in which your place — and the place of your allies and adversaries — is determined by whether you believe that America’s institutions should be fixed or destroyed. Her argument feels eerily prescient in light of the Trump

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45:07

Do Americans have too much 'me time?'

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/02/03

Americans are spending an historic amount of time alone, a phenomenon that is often referred to as an "epidemic of loneliness."But are we actually lonely? Or do we prefer being by ourselves? And if we do, what does that mean for us and our society? Today’s guest is journalist Derek Thompson, who, in a recent essay for the Atlantic, challenges the conventional wisdom around loneliness. He argues that Americans prefer solitude, and that preference presents a wholly different kind of challenge for the

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54:42

Attention pays (with Chris Hayes)

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/01/27

Where is your attention right now? Where was it a minute ago? A second ago? Where will it be a minute from now?One of the primary features of this age — the age of the internet and smartphones and algorithmic feeds — is that our attention is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. This is no accident. Our devices and apps are engineered to constantly alert us to things that are important and to things that are not. That’s because holding our attention is valuable. The time we spend reading,

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70:38

How to be happy

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/01/20

What does it take to be happy? Professor of psychology Laurie Santos just might have the answer.This week The Gray Area takes a break from its regular programming to bring you an episode of another podcast that we love. In this episode of Stay Tuned With Preet, host Preet Bharara interviews Laurie Santos, a psychology professor at Yale University, about what we all can do to be happier. The two discuss how to maximize your happiness, how to bring meaning to your career, self-care vs. caring for

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49:53

The screens between us

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2025/01/13

What is the first thing that you touch in the morning? What about the last thing you touch before you go to sleep? For many of us, it’s our phone. Digital devices are with us constantly, often putting a digital layer between us and the world. The benefits of this are enormous: convenience, efficiency, and constant stimulation.But is there a personal cost to living in a mediated reality? Today’s guest is Christine Rosen, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and the author of the new

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