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PODCAST

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Exploring threats to global stability from Ukraine to China to the Middle East with host Gavin Esler – former BBC News presenter, Washington correspondent and host of Newsnight – plus Ukraine-based war reporter Oz Katerji and independent conflict analyst Emma Beals. This Is Not A Drill dives deep into the dangers, corruption, conflicts, disinformation, rivalries and ruthless realpolitik that are making our world ever more dangerous. Support This Is Not A Drill on Patreon from just £3 per month to

news politics

All Episodes

32:23

Is China unstoppable? – How Beijing is fighting to...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/08/28

China is upping its pace in a race to dominate the world of technology. What will Beijing’s quest mean for its rivalry with the US and how will it shape the future? Gavin Esler is joined by Dan Wang, author of Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future, to discuss China’s ambitions. Buy Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This is Not a Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support

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33:05

Special edition: Ukraine at the crossroads – with...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/08/23

As details, claims and counter claims emerge after Trump’s long-promised peace talks, Ukraine’s future remains in the balance.In this special 100th of edition of This Is Not A Drill, Oz Katerji discusses a week of crucial diplomacy with Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine’s minister for foreign affairs from 2020 to 2024. • This episode of This Is Not A Drill is supported by Incogni, the service that keeps your private information safe, protects you from identity theft and keeps your data from being sold

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36:02

Trump, Putin and the fate of Ukraine – Where next?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/08/20

After a frantic week of international diplomacy, where has the Trump-Putin summit left the prospect of an end to Russia’s war on Ukraine?Following Trump’s red carpet welcome for Putin in Alaska, European leaders scrambled to join Volodymyr Zelenskyy for further talks in Washington. With details still unclear on a host of negotiations, from land swaps to security guarantees, sanctions and even a potential meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy, what’s the state of play now? Oz Katerji is joined by

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42:07

Trump, cartels and the war on fentanyl

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/08/14

The highly potent opioid fentanyl is a major cause of death in the US – and the global trade of the drug is also a cause of growing geopolitical division. Trump has claimed tariffs on Mexico and Canada are targeting the supply of the drug; his China tariffs have complicated efforts to stem exports of the ingredients needed for its production, and fractures among cartels pushing fentanyl could well reshape underworld activity worldwide. In the latest episode of This Is Not A Drill, Emma Beals

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34:52

Iran vs. Israel and America – What next after the 12...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/08/07

After the 12 day war, which saw Israel and the US bomb Iran and its nuclear facilities, where next for the Iranian regime? Questions remain over the Tehran regime’s ability to stay in power after decades of tensions in the region exploded on Iranian soil in June, its strategy of ‘forward defence’ left in ruins following Israel’s attacks on Iranian-aligned militia groups. Will Iran now continue to pursue what’s left of the nuclear programme targeted by US and Israeli strikes, or can a lasting

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35:41

Why are peace deals so hard to reach?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/07/31

Why is it so difficult to end wars and what makes peace settlementsso likely to be rejected? These questions echo across the globe in an era of conflict and political division, with attempts to broker peace settlements in Gaza and Ukraine dominating headlines but so far remaining out of reach. Historian Margaret MacMillan is Professor at the University of Oxford and the author of numerous books on war and peace, including Peacemakers, and joins Gavin Esler to discuss the history and pressing

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35:06

How Putin stole Russia's future

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/07/24

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, a generation of young Russians hoped for a better future of economic prosperity and personal freedom. Yet three decades later Russia has invaded Ukraine and is isolated from the Western world.What happened to the dreams of the perestroika generation, and what does Russian society think about Putin’s war and his grip on power? In the latest episode of This Is Not a Drill, Gavin Esler talks to Russian journalist and writer Irina Borogan, whose book Our

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30:40

Trump’s Putin ultimatum — Can he force an end to the...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/07/17

Trump’s position on the war in Ukraine looks to be changing, with his decision to send new weapons to Ukraine and a 50-day ultimatum for Vladimir Putin to halt Russian attacks.But will Trump’s threat of ‘severe’ sanctions decisively impact Russian’s war economy and force Putin to a lasting ceasefire? Gavin Esler assesses Trump’s ‘major statement’ on Russia with Mark Galeotti, historian, writer and leading expert on Russian security affairs. • This episode of This Is Not A Drill is

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39:09

Appetite for corruption – How Trump is letting...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/07/10

Trump has opened the doors to kleptocrats the world over as he launches a new era of corruption the likes of which we’ve never seen. Oliver Bullough, writer of the Coda Story newsletter as well as the author of Butler to the World: How Britain Became the Servant of Tycoons, Tax Dodgers, Kleptocrats and Criminals, and Moneyland, has long been following the corrupt ways money moves around the globe. He joins Gavin Esler to discuss how this is happening, what guardrails there are and what hope there

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50:49

Inside the battle for truth – with Bellingcat’s Eliot...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/07/03

From ‘alternative facts’ to political lies to the disinformation that courses through social media, the ‘post-truth’ phenomenon threatens the foundations of democracy. Politicians and ideologues are ramping up mistrust in our institutions using unchecked digital media. How can we hold onto democratic guardrails in a world shaped by politically-driven deceit and manipulation? Eliot Higgins is the founder of Bellingcat, the investigative journalism group specialising in the use of open-source

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32:19

Iran-Israel ceasefire – Will Trump's truce hold?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/06/25

Out early due to the fast moving situation... The ceasefire announced by Donald Trump has seemingly brought an end to the conflict between Israel and Iran. Yet with the ceasefire almost immediately broken by both sides according to the latest reports, will the truce last? And what can America and allies do to hold peace in a fragile Middle East? Gavin Esler is joined by Dr Julie Norman, professor in politics and international relations at University College London and associate fellow at

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31:23

Israel-Iran — Will Trump drag America into the conflict?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/06/19

As Israel and Iran continue to trade attacks, what role will the US play in attempting to bring the crisis to an end - and might it be dragged into the conflict?As Donald Trump weighs up his options – either to force Iran into committing to giving up its nuclear programme, or potentially deploy US bombers and bunker busting bombs to hit Iran’s underground nuclear facilities – the prospect of American forces joining directly in the conflict divides the US President's MAGA movement. In the

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31:15

‘Rising Lion’ – What Israel’s onslaught on Iran means

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/06/13

Israel’s unprecedented attack on over 100 targets in Iran – including nuclear facilities, missile sites, and military leadership – has stunned the region. But what does it mean? As Iranian state TV reports the deaths of key regime figures, and nuclear scientists, supreme leader Ali Khamenei promises heavy retaliation for “Operation Rising Lion”. Trump meanwhile warns “it will only get worse” for Iran unless they sign a deal over its nuclear programme.On this special edition, conflict reporter Oz

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29:29

Shadow war – Can Britain face down the Russian threat?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/06/12

Launching the UK’s latest strategic defence review, Keir Starmer pledged renewed spending on defence and vowed “everything we do will add to the strength of NATO”.Yet as NATO secretary general Mark Rutte calls for members to increase spending further to five percent of GDP on security, are Britain and its allies doing enough to secure the alliance’s future and deter the threat of an expansionist Russia? In the latest episode of This Is Not A Drill, Gavin Esler is joined by Sir Richard

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41:22

Aerial assault – How drones changed warfare forever

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/06/09

More than three years since the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, warfare has been transformed by drones. Reports have stated that 70 percent of combat casualties in the war in Ukraine are now caused by drones, while the British security think tank RUSI calculates drones account for 60 to 70 percent of damaged and destroyed Russian systems. Ukraine, forced to innovate to hold off Russian forces, claims to be capable of making 4 million drones this year, Russia says it made 1.4 million

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32:02

Operation Spiderweb – How Ukraine stunned Russia and...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/06/05

Ukraine’s daring drone attack Operation Spiderweb has stunned Russia with its stealth, precision planning and the damage it unleashed on warplanes based deep within Russian territory. Gavin Esler is joined from Kyiv by This Is Not A Drill co-host Oz Katerji, to discuss the impact of an operation planned meticulously over the past 18 months – and what it means both for the war and the nature of asymmetric conflict. • This episode of This Is Not A Drill is supported by Incogni, the service that

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35:22

Israel-Gaza – Will anybody stop Netanyahu?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/05/29

The continued assault of the Israeli armed forces amid a growing humanitarian crisis in Gaza has drawn global criticism. Yet the question remains – who will intervene to end the conflict and restrain Israel’s Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu?Donald Trump’s recent trip to the Middle East saw the US President looking to broker deals in the region - including the potential for a new deal with Israel's rivals Iran. But is Trump also willing to take a new approach to intervene over Gaza? In the

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29:35

Eastern flank – Why Poland is crucial to Europe's...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/05/22

With questions raised over Europe’s defence capabilities, Poland is one of the key nations insisting the continent needs to bolster its security. This March the European Commission announced an €800bn plan to boost continental defence. But is Europe doing enough? Gavin Esler discusses the view from Poland with Professor Agnieszka Bieńczyk-Missala from the Faculty of Political Science and International Studies at Warsaw University. • This episode of This Is Not A Drill is supported by Incogni,

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48:28

Trump's Syria shift – A pivotal moment for Damascus...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/05/15

Trump’s shock announcement that he would be lifting economic sanctions on Syria has sparked celebrations in the streets of Damascus. What are the consequences for the recovery of a nation rebuilding its state and infrastructure after more than a decade of civil war? And following the announcement in Riyadh after a meeting between Trump and Syria’s new President Ahmed al-Sharaa, what does it mean for Syria’s rebalancing of relations in the Middle East and across the globe? Emma Beals discusses

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32:43

Kashmir crisis – Can India and Pakistan come back...

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler ·

2025/05/08

As the crisis across the India-Pakistan border escalates, can the conflict be brought back from the brink?To discuss the latest from the region and the wider context of a deep-rooted interstate rivalry, Gavin Esler talks to Christopher Clary, associate professor at University at Albany, State University of New York, non-resident fellow at the Stimson Center and author of The Difficult Politics of Peace: Rivalry in Modern South Asia. • This episode of This Is Not A Drill is supported by Incogni,

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