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PODCAST

The Road to Accountable AI

Artificial intelligence is changing business, and the world. How can you navigate through the hype to understand AI"s true potential, and the ways it can be implemented effectively, responsibly, and safely? Wharton Professor and Chair of Legal Studies and Business Ethics Kevin Werbach has analyzed emerging technologies for thirty years, and created one of the first business school course on legal and ethical considerations of AI in 2016. He interviews the experts and executives building accountable

technology

All Episodes

29:32

Kay Firth-Butterfield: Using AI Wisely

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/06/26

Kevin Werbach interviews Kay Firth-Butterfield about how responsible AI has evolved from a niche concern to a global movement. As the world’s first Chief AI Ethics Officer and former Head of AI at the World Economic Forum, Firth-Butterfield brings deep experience aligning AI with human values. She reflects on the early days of responsible AI—when the field was dominated by philosophical debates—to today, when regulation such as the European Union's AI Act is defining the rules of the road.

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39:33

Dale Cendali: How Courts (and Maybe Congress!) Will...

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/06/19

Kevin Werbach interviews Dale Cendali, one of the country’s leading intellectual property (IP) attorneys, to discuss how courts are grappling with copyright questions in the age of generative AI. Over 30 lP awsuits already filed against major generative AI firms, and the outcomes may shape the future of AI as well as creative industries. While we couldn't discuss specifics of one of the most talked-about cases, Thomson Reuters v. ROSS -- because Cendali is litigating it on behalf of Thomson Reuters

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36:52

Brenda Leong: Building AI Law Amid Legal Uncertainty

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/06/12

Kevin Werbach interviews Brenda Leong, Director of the AI division at boutique technology law firm ZwillGen, to explore how legal practitioners are adapting to the rapidly evolving landscape of artificial intelligence. Leong explains why meaningful AI audits require deep collaboration between lawyers and data scientists, arguing that legal systems have not kept pace with the speed and complexity of technological change. Drawing on her experience at Luminos.Law—one of the first AI-specialist

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37:00

Shameek Kundu: AI Testing and the Quest for Boring...

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/06/05

Kevin Werbach interviews Shameek Kundu, Executive Director of AI Verify Foundation, to explore how organizations can ensure AI systems work reliably in real-world contexts. AI Verify, a government-backed nonprofit in Singapore, aims to build scalable, practical testing frameworks to support trustworthy AI adoption. Kundu emphasizes that testing should go beyond models to include entire applications, accounting for their specific environments, risks, and data quality. He draws on lessons from AI

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32:44

Uthman Ali: Responsible AI in a Safety Culture

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/05/29

Host Kevin Werbach interviews Uthman Ali, Global Responsible AI Officer at BP, to delve into the complexities of implementing responsible AI practices within a global energy company. Ali emphasizes how the culture of safety in the industry influences BP's willingness to engage in AI governance. He discusses the necessity of embedding ethical AI principles across all levels of the organization, emphasizing tailored training programs for various employee roles—from casual AI users to data

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35:26

Karen Hao: Is Imperial AI Inevitable?

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/05/22

Kevin Werbach interviews journalist and author Karen Hao about her new book Empire of AI, which chronicles the rise of OpenAI and the broader implications of generative artificial intelligence. Hao reflects on how the ethical challenges of AI have evolved, noting the shift from concerns like data privacy and algorithmic bias to more complex issues such as intellectual property violations, environmental impact, misleading user experiences, and concentration of power. She emphasizes that while some

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29:53

Jaime Banks: How Users Perceive AI Companions

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/05/15

AI companion applications, which create interactive personas for one-on-one conversations, are incredibly popular. However, they raise a number of challenging ethical, legal, and psychological questions. In this episode, Kevin Werbach speaks with researcher Jaime Banks about how users view their conversations with AI companions, and the implications for governance. Banks shares insights from her research on mind-perception, and how AI companion users engage in a willing suspension of disbelief

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36:32

Kelly Trindel: AI Governance Across the Enterprise?...

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/05/08

In this episode, Kevin Werbach interviews Kelly Trindel, Head of Responsible AI at Workday. Although Trindel's team is housed within Workday’s legal department, it operates as a multidisciplinary group, bringing together legal, policy, data science, and product expertise. This structure helps ensure that responsible AI practices are integrated not just at the compliance level but throughout product development and deployment. She describes formal mechanisms—such as model review boards and

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35:53

David Weinberger: How AI Challenges Our Fundamental...

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/05/01

Professor Werbach interviews David Weinberger, author of several books and a long-time deep thinker on internet trends, about the broader implications of AI on how we understand and interact with the world. They examine the idea that throughout history, dominant technologies—like the printing press, the clock, or the computer—have subtly but profoundly shaped our concepts of knowledge, intelligence, and identity. Weinberger argues that AI, and especially machine learning, represents a new kind of

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38:29

Ashley Casovan: From Privacy Practice to AI Governance

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/04/24

Professor Werbach talks with Ashley Casavan, Managing Director of the AI Governance Center at the IAPP, the global association for privacy professional and related roles. Ashley shares how privacy, data protection, and AI governance are converging, and why professionals must combine technical, policy, and risk expertise. They discuss efforts to build a skills competency framework for AI roles and examine the evolving global regulatory landscape—from the EU’s AI Act to U.S. state-level initiatives

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40:15

Lauren Wagner: The Potential of Private AI Governance

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/04/17

Kevin Werbach interviews Lauren Wagner, a builder and advocate for market-driven approaches to AI governance. Lauren shares insights from her experiences at Google and Meta, emphasizing the critical intersection of technology, policy, and trust-building. She describes the private AI governance model, and the incentives for private-sector incentives and transparency measures, such as enhanced model cards, to guide responsible AI development without heavy-handed regulation. Lauren also explores

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38:45

Medha Bankhwal and Michael Chui: Implementing AI Trust

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/04/10

Kevin Werbach speaks with Medha Bankhwal and Michael Chui from QuantumBlack, the AI division of the global consulting firm McKinsey. They discuss how McKinsey's AI work has evolved from strategy consulting to hands-on implementation, with AI trust now embedded throughout their client engagements. Chui highlights what makes the current AI moment transformative, while Bankwhal shares insights from McKinsey's recent AI survey of over 760 organizations across 38 countries. As they explain, trust

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38:24

Eric Bradlow: AI Goes to Business School

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2025/04/03

Kevin Werbach speaks with Eric Bradlow, Vice Dean of AI & Analytics at Wharton. Bradlow highlights the transformative impacts of AI from his perspective as an applied statistician and quantitative marketing expert. He describes the distinctive approach of Wharton's analytics program, and its recent evolution with the rise of AI. The conversation highlights the significance of legal and ethical responsibility within the AI field, and the genesis of the new Wharton Accountable AI Lab. Werbach and

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35:22

Wendy Gonzalez: Managing the Humans in the AI Loop

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2024/12/12

This week, Kevin Werbach is joined by Wendy Gonzalez of Sama, to discuss the intersection of human judgment and artificial intelligence. Sama provides data annotation, testing, model fine-tuning, and related services for computer vision and generative AI. Kevin and Wendy review Sama's history and evolution, and then consider the challenges of maintaining reliability in AI models through validation and human-centric feedback. Wendy addresses concerns about the ethics of employing workers from the

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34:33

Jessica Lennard: AI Regulation as Part of a Growth...

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2024/12/05

The UK is in a unique position in the global AI landscape. It is home to important AI development labs and corporate AI adopters, but its regulatory regime is distinct from both the US and the European Union. In this episode, Kevin Werbach sits down with Jessica Leonard, the Chief Strategy and External Affairs Officer at the UK's Competition and Markets Authority (CMA). Jessica discusses the CMA's role in shaping AI policy against the backdrop of a shifting political and economic landscape, and how

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27:08

Tim O'Reilly: The Values of AI Disclosure

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2024/11/21

In this episode, Kevin speaks with with the influential tech thinker Tim O’Reilly, founder and CEO of O’Reilly Media and popularizer of terms such as open source and Web 2.0. O'Reilly, who co-leads the AI Disclosures Project at the Social Science Research Council, offers an insightful and historically-informed take on AI governance. Tim and Kevin first explore the evolution of AI, tracing its roots from early computing innovations like ENIAC to its current transformative role Tim notes the

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35:26

Alice Xiang: Connecting Research and Practice for...

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2024/11/14

Join Professor Werbach in his conversation with Alice Xiang, Global Head of AI Ethics at Sony and Lead Research Scientist at Sony AI. With both a research and corporate background, Alice provides an inside look at how her team integrates AI ethics across Sony's diverse business units. She explains how the evolving landscape of AI ethics is both a challenge and an opportunity for organizations to reposition themselves as the world embraces AI. Alice discusses fairness, bias, and incorporating these

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38:05

Krishna Gade: Observing AI Explainability...and...

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2024/11/07

Kevin Werbach speaks with Krishna Gade, founder and CEO of Fiddler AI, on the the state of explainability for AI models. One of the big challenges of contemporary AI is understanding just why a system generated a certain output. Fiddler is one of the startups offering tools that help developers and deployers of AI understand what exactly is going on. In the conversation, Kevin and Krishna explore the importance of explainability in building trust with consumers, companies, and developers, and then

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36:37

Angela Zhang: What’s Really Happening with AI (and AI...

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2024/10/31

This week, Professor Werbach is joined by USC Law School professor Angela Zhang, an expert on China's approach to the technology sector. China is both one of the world's largest markets and home to some of the world's leading tech firms, as well as an active ecosystem of AI developers. Yet its relationship to the United States has become increasingly tense. Many in the West see a battle between the US and China to dominate AI, with significant geopolitical implications. In the episodoe, Zhang

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35:09

Shae Brown: AI Auditing Gets Real

The Road to Accountable AI ·

2024/10/24

Professor Werbach speaks with Shea Brown, founder of AI auditing firm BABL AI. Brown discusses how his work as an astrophysicist led him to and machine learning, and then to the challenge of evaluating AI systems. He explains the skills needed for effective AI auditing and what makes a robust AI audit. Kevin and Shae talk about the growing landscape of AI auditing services and the strategic role of specialized firms like BABL AI. They examine the evolving standards and regulations surrounding AI

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