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PODCAST

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Legal Talk Network

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law"s Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

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All Episodes

37:16

Sex Asteroids, Sleazebags, And Meme Police

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/06/04

Quite the combination of words.----- Lawsuit against former Texas SG alleges bizarre cosmic sex fetish. The administration made two significant changes to the judicial nomination process, firing the ABA from its neutral evaluator role and kicking the Federalist Society to the curb. The latter move came with an epic rant declaring Leonard Leo a sleazebag. Broken clocks and all. And Kash Patel lays out the FBI's priorities and child predators and terrorists are now lower on the most wanted list

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40:14

Supreme Court Just Making It Up As It Goes Along

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/05/28

From the administrative state to voting rights, they're just sort of winging it trying to reverse engineer results. ----- As Supreme Court season hits fever pitch, we're joined by Professor Leah Litman, author of Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes, to discuss the nightmare we're facing. Elena Kagan took the opportunity to humiliate her colleagues last week calling out an arbitrary carve out created to protect their investments. Kagan's

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41:58

Are Those Seashells In Your Pocket Or Are You Just...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/05/21

Seashellgate meets Surrendergate.----- Since we're cursed to act as keepers of the flame to remind the legal community that several large law firms really did willingly sell out to the Trump administration, this week we discuss our columnist Vivia Chen's exploration of the unique impact of these moves on young lawyers learning early that Biglaw is more than happy to throw them under the bus. We also discuss how James Comey's Instagram pic triggered a tragicomic meltdown of some of the most

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35:44

Bold Strategy Biglaw, Let's See If It Pays Off

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/05/14

What if we just act like nothing happened?----- Biglaw firms who gave in to Trump suffered a scathing 60 Minutes piece and key talent defections, so they've decided upon a new tactic: pretending they never made a deal at all! It does not appear to be working. Meanwhile, Justice David Souter died reminding everyone of an era when the federal judiciary cared more about the right answer than appeasing political patrons. Unfortunately, Souter's nomination inadvertently triggered that change. And we

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33:10

Biglaw Firms Fighting Trump Keep Winning,...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/05/07

It was a bad week to compromise your values.----- Perkins Coie secured a permanent injunction against the Trump administration's retaliatory executive order. Meanwhile, firms that balked at putting up a fight against the illegal attacks have seen the White House drag them into police brutality cases and law schools start openly talking about students taking their talents elsewhere. And then the harshest cut of all -- a deep pocketed client bailed on a collaborator firm to give business to a firm

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29:03

Even Judges Aren't Safe In Trump's America

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/04/30

The arrest of Wisconsin judge Hannah Dugan is straight outta dystopian fiction. But at least retired Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer still has faith in the system, which makes one of us. Speaking of the High Court, Justice Sam Alito's dissent would be laughable if he weren't so powerful.

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34:19

Biglaw Brings In Big Bucks

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/04/23

And the world continues to melt.----- We've got key financial data from the top law firms and the takeaway is that it's good to be a big firm. The Am Law 100 this year revealed that more and more firms have joined the super rich and things look bright for Biglaw. Unless someone triggers a global depression or something. We also discuss what it means to be "bipartisan" in an environment where the intellectual stars of the conservative legal movement are ALSO lining up to call out the Trump

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39:49

Law School Ranking Chaos And Biglaw Trump Deals Turn...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/04/16

US News and World Report released its most recent law school rankings with a side of chaos, but the big takeaway is the scrambling and erosion of the "T14" as an organizing concept. Is it time to dismiss the rankings as arbitrary? At least until law schools agree to cooperate again. Also, Surrendergate continues and the "we'll do some pro bono for veterans" deal has turned dramatically, with the White House now claiming the authority to "assign" Biglaw firms to work on administration projects. Sound

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32:11

Biglaw Surrender Fallout Continues

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/04/09

And now we have a tracker for that!----- After a few weeks of watching some law firms stand up to facially illegal demands from the Trump administration... and more law firms rapidly cave to those same demands, we put together a helpful tracker to keep clients, potential laterals, and law students fully aware of where firms currently stand. But we depend on you out there to keep us up-to-date! Meanwhile, more associates have taken a stand against their surrendering firms and some law students have

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33:56

Fight Or Flight... The Biglaw Conundrum

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/04/02

A great divide is developing.----- Following the Paul Weiss surrender we discussed last week, Skadden preemptively followed suit agreeing to commit $100M in pro bono payola to the MAGA cause. Bringing to light some embarrassing email policies in the process. But other Biglaw firms showed a little more life, with Jenner & Block and WilmerHale suing the administration over its retaliatory executive orders. And a major firm announced an end to on-campus recruiting, which seems like a bad policy for

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31:05

Paul Weiss Waves The White Flag

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/03/26

Courage seems to be in short supply in Biglaw.----- Paul Weiss folded immediately in the face of Trump's threat, offering the president pro bono services and a retreat from DEI. For a firm that built its reputation on litigation, the move came as a surprise. A Skadden associate called upon the industry to develop a backbone. So she's not going to be working there any more. There are a lot of dumb things about the administration's mass deportation to an El Salvadoran prison, but its unironic

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35:51

Biglaw Struggling To Deal With Trump Chaos

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/03/19

There's no escaping the administration's influence on the legal landscape.----- The Trump administration continues its revenge tour against Biglaw, and Perkins Coie is fighting back. Through counsel at Williams & Connolly, Perkins delivered a scorching takedown of the administration's arbitrary retaliation against the firm, earning a partial TRO. Meanwhile, most of Biglaw remains silent. And if they aren't silent, they're silently deleting references to diversity, including a clumsy effort

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33:25

John Roberts Realizes He Made A Huge Mistake

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/03/12

ACB isn't having it.----- Remember when Arrested Development made this a gag? John Roberts is living it out in real time as the president explains -- on national television -- that Roberts is a partisan hack. Amy Coney Barrett seems less excited about the prospect. Meanwhile, the administration is threatening law firms. The dean of one law school is stepping up. Also, what is this -- now former -- partner doing?

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36:16

Diddy Lawyer Decides He Gotta Move On

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/03/05

And the new USNWR rankings are dealing with some crazy data.----- We're not saying Diddy is an unsavory client, but we are saying Osama bin Laden's lawyer just noped out of continuing to represent him. We also got some limited insight into the US News rankings and there's some potential tumult at the top. And Judge Reyes had to blow up a hapless DOJ lawyer trying to defend the indefensible and the Trump administration displayed its inner snowflake.

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36:08

Who Needs Caselaw Anyway?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/02/26

The new federal deficit is the government's research deficit.----- Elon Musk's aimless cost-cutting escapades turn to the SEC where DOGE slashed their Westlaw access because no one over there is smart enough to know how legal research works. Apparently now is an opportune time to start committing securities fraud! Speaking of aimless, former judge Alex Kozinski penned a meandering opinion piece about canceling elections in case, maybe, some president might want to consider it. And a few law schools

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37:13

Someone Needs To Come Get These Junior Associates

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/02/19

'Nah, you do that' is not a response that keeps lawyers employed.----- Imagine the audacity it takes for a rookie lawyer to refuse to do the work assigned by a midlevel or senior associate. And expect to keep their job? The story of a beleaguered midlevel asking for help with an unruly junior refusing to work has us wondering if the kids are not all right. Also the administration starts calling for impeachment when a judge imposes a TRO of less than a week and that doesn't bode well for when they

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35:35

Insurer Spending On Lawyers Rather Than, You Know,...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/02/12

And Biglaw begins adjusting to Trump era.------ If United Healthcare considered spending more on a cancer patient and less on lawyers to sue doctors for pointing out they didn't spend on the cancer patient they wouldn't be getting so thoroughly dragged online. While the mockery they're getting is funny, this underscores the dangerous weaponization of defamation (and also copyright) laws, allowing deep pocketed antagonists to squelch criticism by filing low merit suits. Also, a Biglaw firm

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51:15

400th Episode Spectacular

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/02/05

Getting the band back together.----- A jumbo sized episode this week as Thinking Like A Lawyer celebrates its 400th episode with a look back at some big changes in law firms, law schools, and the courts that have unfolded over its last 10 years of podcasting. Original co-host Elie Mystal from The Nation joins the gang to share his thoughts. He's not particularly optimistic.

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39:00

First Thing We Do, Let's Fire All The Lawyers

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/01/29

Government lawyer purge creates chaos----- Trump administration slashes jobs for young lawyers months before they officially start sparking a scramble for jobs. The Justice Department followed up that news by terminating career DOJ lawyers for the sin of having worked on Trump's criminal cases. One Biglaw firm informs its associates that they're not getting their full bonuses based on office attendance. While we're at it... should lawyers rely on law firm bonuses anyway? And a professor gets

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35:08

Tom Goldstein Should've Stuck With High Stakes Go Fish

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/01/22

You've got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em.------ Supreme Court litigator Tom Goldstein, co-founder of SCOTUSblog, is on the wrong side of the law facing a multi-count indictment related to the alleged fallout of a hard-core gambling lifestyle. All while routinely arguing multiple cases in front of the Supreme Court. Legen...wait for it...dary. Also Proskauer proves that every rose has its thorn and Yale stares down on of the most epic downgrades in law school history.

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432 results

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