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PODCAST

Debunking Economics - the podcast

Steve Keen & Phil Dobbie

Economist Steve Keen talks to Phil Dobbie about the failings of the neoclassical economics and how it reflects on society. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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All Episodes

42:26

Will Europe every get its mojo back?

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/09/17

After the war the European economy was humming along, with growth rates of 5 percent or more.Now Germany’s forecast to grow by just 0.1 percent. Allowing for population growth and inflation and it’s an economy in decline. Steve says part of the problem is the assumption that rising government debt is bad for the economy – the old neoclassical belief that if the government spends, it crowds out the private sector. They’ve been testing that theory in Europe for a while now, and it isn’t working for

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46:36

is it RIP for IP?

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/09/10

Copyright and IP rights has always been notoriously difficult to protect. Does it become impossible with the rise of AI? The ideas presented to you through your favourite AI engine come from somewhere whose ideas are being used to support an argument. Or, if you create an artwork that is analysed and used to create other artworks, has copyright been infringed, or is what we would have traditionally called inspiration? Phil asks, is it time to just admit defeat and accept that copyright is an

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45:00

Will AI deliver – and at what cost?

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/09/03

We keep hearing about the productivity gains from AI. This week Phil asks Steve about the difference between productivity for a company versus the societal benefits.For example, AI and robots might do a job more efficiently than a human, but it’ll chew up energy in the process, and the human will still be consuming energy as well, unless robots start killing us off. So, this revolution might make some companies more efficient, but as a society as a whole what is the price we are paying? Or is Phil

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42:00

UBI and the tech bros

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/08/27

The small number of technologists who increasingly control the planet’s wealth and political and social agenda are, it seems, big supporters of UBI. Elon Musk is at the forefront of this push.And why wouldn’t he be? His vision is a future of unbounding economic growth, in which the work of humans is almost completely replaced by robots, leaving us all plenty of time to pursue interests, engage in deep philosophical thought or, more likely, get fat watching daytime TV with no sense of purpose. This

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41:55

Countering the Cantillon Effect

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/08/20

18th century economist Richard Cantillon theorised that new money added to the economy always reaches the wealthiest people first.If there’s a lot of it, the extra supply will push up prices, but the rich won’t feel it, they’ll just create it. The impact down the track is that the poor, surviving with the same money as before, get hit with the higher prices.Phil suggests that wouldn’t be the case if extra money was created through government spending. It would be the workers and those on welfare

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45:30

Planning, egos and resources

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/08/13

Phil and Steve pick up from last week’s discussion about the merits of central planning. Last time they talked about how big companies, like Walmart in the US, plan centrally, yet free marketeers have a problem with that sort of coordination being applied to the free market. This week Phil asks how you can ensure that government planning can ensure resources are allocated effectively. For example, isn’t there a risk that you’ll use raw materials and labour to satisfy the wants of the very rich,

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39:37

The need for central planning

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/08/06

In one of his many walks around his neighbourhood Phil has been listening to a book, The People's Republic of Walmart, by Leigh Phillips & Michal Rozworski. Basically, a contrarian economist and a journalist teaming up together. Could such a combination ever really work?The book highlights how part of Walmart’s success story was its meticulous central planning, in contrast to Sears, a business decimated by an adherence to a market based internal structure. 30 internal division competed for

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36:01

Lessons from Lesotho on trade and alliances

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/07/30

Lesotho (pronounced ,li-su-tu0 is a small African nature that President Trumpthreatened with 50% tariffs, describing as a country nobody had ever heard of.Maybe that’s enough for his disciples to dismiss the hardship tariffs will place on the country, where youth unemployment is rife and the minimum wage is US$100 per month. Phil says twenty years ago America was trying to help countries like Lesotho, with tariff free trade to help the economy grow.Why? Because as Steve points out, if developing

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41:27

Getting the numbers we need

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/07/23

There is a huge reliance on data to aid decision making – whether it’s Investors wanting to know where to move money, central banks pretending to understand the economy, governments making policy decisions or companies planning for their future.Sadly, data collection faces two challenges. One is a lack of sufficient government spending.As Steve points out, perhaps Texas would be more prepared for the horrendous flooding of the last few weeks, if they hadn’t sacked so many meteorologists. The other

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39:54

The self-induced healthcare trap

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/07/16

In real terms the amount the UK spends on healthcare has risen from £500 in 1970 to £3,000 per person today. That’s a massive increase, but the payback has been that we are living 10 years longer. Ask people if they would be prepared to spend 10% of their income to live ten years longer, most would say yes. Yet we have a real problem in having the government spending more on healthcare.As always, it gets back to the question of where is the money coming from? A government provided healthcare system

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44:14

Blowing the budget?

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/07/09

Financial markets don’t like it when governments announce plans to spend more money. That’s why there’s concern over Donald Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill, which will add, by some accounts, $4 trillion to the US budget deficit over the next decade. Steve Keen says it’s not a problem. Banks buy up the bonds and the central bank ensures they have the liquidity to do so.In which case, why are people ditching US bonds in favour of other sovereign debt elsewhere? And isn’t there a risk that higher treasury

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41:56

Ditching the dollar

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/07/02

There’s been a lot of talk lately about de-dollarisation. In other words, global investors are parking less of their money in US dollars (in the form of US treasuries/bonds). What was once considered a safe choice, is now seen as having more risk, and that’s being accentuated right now by the falling value of the US dollar. If, as an overseas investor, you bought US government bonds a t the start of the year, they’d be worth 10 percent less now, simply because that’s how much the dollar has fallen

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40:28

Is manufacturing fetishism a problem?

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/06/25

There was an article in The Economist last week, shared widely in press around the globe, about the apparent fixation with manufacturing. Aussie economist Saul Eslake calls it Manufacturing Fetishism, with government support focused more on that sector than anything else. President Trump wants to bring home everything from steelmaking to drug production and is putting up tariff barriers to do so. Britain is considering subsidising manufacturers’ energy bills; Narendra Modi, India’s prime minister,

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43:07

Selling the farm

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/06/18

There’s an irony that the UK Chancellor Rachel Reeves has imposed an inheritance tax on farmers, whilst a trade agreement with the US could see Britain selling-the-farm on a farm grander scale.Phil argues that some sort of tax on the inheritance of farms makes sense kif its only used as a tax dodge. Jeremy Clarkson bought his farm (reportedly for £6 million) and had a farm manager run it for 10 years before he started making his TV series. If we he died before the new tax rules the £6 million would

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42:29

AI and the death of work

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/06/11

Bill Gates has predicted that within 10 years we’ll be working a two-day week, thanks to advances in AI.He says it’ll mean a vast rethinking of the workplace. It’s not too dissimilar to Keynes's prediction in the 1930s that wed al be working 15-hour weeks, with more time to enjoy the good things in life.Of course, Keynes was wrong. We are working longer hours with loads more stress. Tools to aid productivity have freed up time for us to take new jobs and add to the economic output. Steve says a lot

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40:22

Insurance, the canary for climate change

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/06/04

There are challenges that the insurance industry faces, even though it can look like a licence to print money, Since the Big Bang of the nineties, when deregulation allowed the industry to flourish, insurance now accounts for 2.5% of UK GDP. Not bad money for an industry that is a cost to society, rather than a benefit. Until now the business model has been simple; charge a premium based on the risk profile of the customer, avoid high risk customers altogether and invest the payments you receive

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42:19

Are we ready for the next pandemic?

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/05/28

The pandemic killed 200 thousand people in the UK. Are we ready for the next time? Experts reckon will be even less prepared should we see another pandemic in the near future.Prof Tom Koch from the University of British Columbia reckons we don’t have long to wait - the next one could strike in the next five to eight years.If you were a virus with an understanding of how economics is taught, this is exactly how you would have planned it. Yet governments to spend a fortune on the first blow, knowing

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42:19

Can governments spend their way out of a slowdown?

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/05/22

Economists seem conditioned to think that we need to suffer before an economy can get back on track. They argue an economy can’t grow if there is a large amount of accrued government debt. That the economy needs confidence to grow, and the confidence won’t exist the government owes a lot of money. Phil suggests to Steve that confidence and the private sector’s a willingness to invest are two staple requirements for economic growth. A government deficit will also help, but does it really help in

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38:16

Climate Change. The need for a reset.

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/05/14

It’s clear to just about everyone that we won’t reach the climate targets set out in the Paris agreement. It was a pipe dream even before President Trump v2.0 came along. The various COP summits, which rely on agreement from everyone, are nothing more than gabfests. They are a COP-out. This was recognised in a paper this month from the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change, entitled ‘The Climate Paradox: Why We Need to Reset Action on Climate Change’.There are some sound observations, says Steve,

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42:38

Jobs for all. Is it a false utopia?

Debunking Economics - the podcast ·

2025/05/07

A key policy area of Modern Monetary Theory is the idea of a job guarantee.There might be a limit to available resources, but the labour force should always be employed. It helps the economy and it’s good for the individuals and for society. But Phil wonders how practical it is.If there’s an economic downturn can the government miraculously conjure up worthwhile jobs? Steve says it was less of an issue in the 50s and 60s when a higher proportion of the population worked for the government. Perhaps a

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