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PODCAST

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast

Join Mary O"Carroll as she sits down with General Counsel, Chief Legal Officers, and industry pioneers to tackle the debates reshaping legal services and technology. Presented by Workday.

business management

All Episodes

53:44

#72 - Moderna GC’s AI Strategy

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/07/08

What does it look like when a general counsel doesn’t just adopt AI—but rewires her entire legal function around it? In this episode, Mary O’Carroll sits down with Shannon Thyme Klinger, Chief Legal Officer at Moderna and President of Moderna Charitable Foundation. Named by the Financial Times as one of the most innovative GCs of the past two decades, Shannon is reshaping what it means to lead a legal team—and a profession—through profound change. In this episode: “AI won’t replace lawyers, but…”

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50:09

#71 - How to Hire (and Get Hired) in Legal Ops

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/06/24

In this episode, Mary O’Carroll reunites with Anne Kerwin Payne of Kerwin Associates to dig into one of the most misunderstood yet high-stakes roles in legal: in-house legal operations. If you’re a GC hiring for legal ops—or a candidate trying to land that elusive “head of legal ops” title—this one’s for you. Anne brings decades of legal recruiting insight, a front-row seat to the evolution of the legal ops role, and a refreshingly candid take on what works (and what definitely doesn’t). In this

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46:52

#70 - Data, AI, and the New Legal Ops Playbook

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/06/10

When legal ops meets the AI data revolution, what does it actually look like on the ground? In this episode, Mary O’Carroll sits down with Aaron Bromagem, Head of Legal Operations at Snowflake, to talk about what it means to lead legal ops inside one of the top AI and data companies—and why the role today is barely recognizable from just a few years ago. Aaron shares how his team is navigating breakneck change, massive expectations from leadership, and a vendor landscape that’s expanding faster than

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47:16

#69 - Why VCs Are Betting Billions On Legal Tech

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/05/27

Years before legal tech hit the mainstream, Jake Saper was already placing bets. As a General Partner at Emergence Capital, Jake helped fund foundational legal tech startups like Ironclad and SimpleLegal—long before most VCs would touch the sector. In this episode, Mary sits down with Jake to unpack his early insights and where he sees the industry heading next. From CLM to AI agents, they explore what’s real, what’s hype, and what buyers and founders should really be paying attention to. Jake isn’t

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56:06

#68 - Law Firms Enter The AI Arms Race

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/05/13

Two years ago, Max Junestrand was pitching his legal AI tool in Stockholm. Today, he leads one of the fastest-growing and most talked-about startups in the legal tech space. In this episode, Mary sits down with the CEO of Legora to unpack what’s really happening at the intersection of AI and the legal industry—and what’s coming next. In this episode: Zero to Ninety: How Legora grew from 3 co-founders in a tiny room to nearly 90 employees in under two years—and why growth at that pace is both

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42:03

#67 - The Multinational CLO

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/04/29

When Mary O’Carroll arrived at Goodwin, she didn’t expect to find a "General Counsel in Residence" — and certainly not one with the powerhouse career of Genevieve Kelly. In this episode, Mary sits down with Genevieve, whose career includes GC and CLO roles at household names like Panera Bread, Petco, and Dole Food Company. Together, they dive deep into what it really takes to lead legal functions inside massive global organizations — and what Genevieve has learned transitioning between companies,

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47:44

#66 - So you wanna be a GC?

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/04/15

When your board asks, “Why this GC?”, you'd better have a good answer. That’s where Anne Kerwin Payne comes in. In this episode, Mary O’Carroll sits down with one of the most trusted names in legal executive search. As founder and managing director of Kerwin Associates, Anne has helped place legal and compliance leaders at some of the most innovative companies in the world. She knows what it takes to stand out—and what gets overlooked. They dive deep into what CEOs are really looking for in today’s

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47:31

#65 - What It Really Takes to Be a CLO Today [Fixed]

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/04/06

Producer’s Note: Oops—we hit a tech snag and the original episode got clipped. Here is the full version. Thanks for bearing with us! When April Miller Boise says she runs into burning buildings, she’s not exaggerating—she thrives in transformation. As EVP, Chief Legal Officer, and Corporate Secretary at Intel, April brings a rare blend of legal precision and big-picture business leadership to one of the most complex roles in the C-suite. In this episode, April sits down with Mary to unpack what it

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47:19

#64 - Why Playing by the Rules Won’t Get You Promoted

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/03/19

Today, Mary sits down with Kathy Dockry, a seasoned leadership coach who has spent over 20 years accelerating the success of high-achieving professionals on their journey to executive leadership. Before stepping into the world of coaching, Kathy was a corporate powerhouse herself, rising to become CEO and North American President of a major British energy company. But she didn’t start there—her roots are in law. Having worked as a litigator in two large New York firms and serving as a general

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49:46

#63 - Is 2025 The Year Law Firms Finally Transform? -...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/03/04

Welcome to another episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off with your host, Mary O'Carroll, Chief Operating Officer at Goodwin. In this episode, Mary sits down with Matt Sunderman, CEO of Harbor Global, to explore the current state and future of legal transformation across law firms and corporate legal departments. Matt Sunderman brings over two decades of experience in the legal industry, leading Harbor Global, the newly branded combination of HBR Consulting, LAC Group, Wilson Allen, and others. His unique

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45:08

#62 - Is Legal Ops Losing Momentum?

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/02/18

When Mary posted a question about the state of legal ops on LinkedIn, she didn't expect to spark such intense debate. But the responses revealed what many have been quietly wondering: has legal operations reached a turning point? In this episode, Mary sits down with Frances Pomposo, Senior Director of Legal Technology Solutions at Cisco, to dig into this thorny question. With her deep experience in tech companies and time on CLOC's board, Frances brings a unique perspective on where legal ops has

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52:32

#61 - If It's Scary, It's Good: How TravelPerk's GC...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/02/04

In this episode, Mary O'Carroll sits down with Andy Cooke, General Counsel at TravelPerk, a hyper-growth global tech unicorn providing business travel solutions. Andy, who previously built award-winning teams at Fnatic and Flash Entertainment, shares his innovative approach to legal operations and AI implementation. The conversation explores how legal departments can evolve beyond traditional service models to become true value creators in the age of AI. Topics: Early adoption of AI in legal

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41:29

#60 - No-Redline Revolution: Redefining In-House...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2025/01/21

In this episode, Mary sits down with Vanessa Wu, the General Counsel at Rippling—a fast-growing platform unifying HR, IT, finance, and more for businesses around the globe. From eliminating contract negotiations by design to harnessing AI for everyday legal work, Vanessa shares how she’s freeing up her team for the most important, high-level tasks. She also opens up about navigating a crisis when Silicon Valley Bank collapsed and Rippling had to hustle a weekend financing—all thanks to smart “North

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46:36

#59 - Lawyers vs. the Commute: Making the Office...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2024/12/31

“Flexibility is here to stay.” – Emily Botello In this episode, Mary chats with Emily Botello from CBRE about how the legal industry is reinventing its office spaces. From single-size offices and neighborhoods of shared desks to seamless technology and thoughtful change management, Emily shares what’s working, what’s not, and how legal teams are adapting to a world where no two days look the same. Topics: Redefining the office with single-size standards and more collaborative designs Setting

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35:43

#58 - Open to Weirdness: Brian Israel on Leading...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2024/12/16

“Sometimes the right answer for Anthropic would be things that 99% of tech companies wouldn’t even consider. You have to be appropriately open to weirdness—not weirdness for the sake of weirdness, but tied to what we’re trying to achieve in the world.” —Brian Isreal, GC, Anthropic In this episode, Mary sits down with Brian Israel, General Counsel at Anthropic, to explore what it’s like to operate at the legal and cultural frontier of AI. From building a hypergrowth legal team to designing a

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55:03

#57 - From Navy Pilot to General Counsel: IPOs and...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2024/12/03

This special episode was recorded live at Goodwin's Tech Retreat in San Francisco, where Mary sits down with Phil Mazzara, General Counsel of Astera Labs, to explore the evolving role of the general counsel in today's rapidly changing technological landscape. Phil's journey is nothing short of extraordinary. Before becoming an attorney, he spent over a decade on active duty as a Navy pilot, bringing a unique perspective to the legal field. With a JD/MBA from Stanford, Phil skipped the traditional

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50:09

#56 - Ending the Billable Hour: Chris Grant’s Mission...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2024/11/19

Welcome to another episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off with your host, Mary O’Carroll, Chief Operating Officer at Goodwin. Today, Mary dives deep with Chris Grant, Head of Legal Market Engagement at HSBC, to unravel the evolving landscape of the legal industry. Chris Grant isn’t your typical legal professional. Frustrated by the glacial pace of change in an industry resistant to innovation, Chris has spent his career challenging the status quo. From his early days in private practice to his current

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45:43

#55 - Redefining Law Firms: Navigating Change with...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2024/11/05

Welcome to another episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off with your host, Mary O’Carroll, Chief Operating Officer at Goodwin. In this episode, Mary sits down with Reena SenGupta, a longtime analyst, writer, consultant, and thought leader in the global legal industry with almost 30 years of experience. Reena’s journey is impressive. She is an entrepreneur and journalist who has developed some of the most influential rankings and programs in the legal world. She was instrumental in creating the Chambers and

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42:06

#54 - Navigating Successful Exits: Joe Hyrkin on...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2024/10/22

Welcome to another episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off with your host, Mary O’Carroll, Chief Operating Officer at Goodwin. In this episode, Mary sits down with Joe Hyrkin, Chief Executive Officer of Issuu, a leading digital publishing platform that’s transformed how content is shared and consumed online. With over 30 years of experience in startup and growth technology leadership across Silicon Valley, New York, Asia, and Europe, Joe brings a wealth of knowledge from early-stage ventures to IPOs and

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42:43

#53 - Building the Law Firm of the Future: A...

Pearls On, Gloves Off: The Legal Innovation Podcast ·

2024/10/08

Welcome to another episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off with your host, Mary O’Carroll, Chief Operating Officer at Goodwin. Today, Mary sits down with Goodwin’s leaders—Anthony McCusker, Chair, and Mark Bettencourt, Managing Partner—for an insightful conversation about the firm’s unique culture, its client-centric approach, and the future of the legal industry. Anthony McCusker is widely recognized as a preeminent adviser in corporate securities and partnership laws, with a primary focus on advising

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