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PODCAST

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Andrew Gill and Leah Payne

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we"re living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy

music music history

All Episodes

48:14

Christian Music on the Hot 100

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/07/02

In mid-June NPR published a story with the headline "Christian music is experiencing a pop breakthrough." As podcasters covering the Christian music industry, we usually think it reached it's zenith of popularity in the early 2000s, so this article caught our attention. To dig deeper into the topic, we invited the article's author, Emma Madden, on the podcast. Our chat was wide ranging and gets into the influence of worship music on new Christian pop music, differences in religious culture

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01:03:34

Russ Taff and Steve Taylor

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/06/25

This week on the show it's legends only: Russ Taff and Steve Taylor. They collaborated on Russ' new album, "Cover Story," but both have long and distinctive careers in the Christian music industry. Russ Taff became lead singer of The Imperials in 1976, started his solo career in 1983, earning two Grammys and many Dove awards. He was one of the industry's biggest solo male stars, but his most beloved songs are Pentecostal worship songs that connect all the way back to his childhood. Over the

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01:16:05

Accountability for Michael Tait (DC Talk, Newsboys)...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/06/18

Michael Tait, most recently lead singer of The Newsboys and also well known as one third of DC Talk, confessed to accusations of sexual assault and drug abuse on June 10, 2025. This came after deeply reported investigations into his behavior were published first by The Roys Report and then by The Guardian. The day before this news broke, whistleblowers accused the worship leader best known for right wing political agitation, Sean Feucht, of financial misappropriation and spiritually

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01:20

Season Three Update

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/03/26

A short update on progress towards season three of Rock That Doesn't Roll. Leah's limited-run podcast, Spirit and Power.

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45:08

Lo! A Christmas Special!

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/12/20

Buy tickets for our live show in Chicago on January 5!It's the second annual Rock That Doesn't Roll CCM Christmas Song Awards!Listen to find out what awards Amy Grant, Sarah Masen, Carman, Stryper and David Meece won this year.Do you have a song that deserves an award? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdrYou can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.comSign up

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30:31

The Art House (ft. Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/11/01

Charlie Peacock is a renowned figure in the music industry for his solo albums, production work, songwriting and his record label RE:Think, which launched Switchfoot and Sarah Mason. Outside of the music industry spotlight he and his wife Andi Ashworth were creating a very unique space in Nashville called The Art House. Their experiences with The Art House inspired their recent book, "Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt." Leah actually

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49:30

Youth Group Demon Hunting (ft. Jordan Morris)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/10/16

Jordan Morris is a long time podcaster, comedy writer and creator and co-writer of the two-time Eisner-nominated graphic novel Bubble (based on the hit podcast). His new graphic novel, co-written with artist Bowen McCurdy is Youth Group. It draws on Jordan's real life experiences in a Orange County California youth groups in the 1990s, but adds literal demon hunting to the list of church-approved activities. In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about Christian

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32:51

Introducing: Second Sunday

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/10/02

Second Sunday is one of our sibling podcasts with PRX's Big Questions Project. Second Sunday is about Black Queer folks finding, keeping and sometimes losing faith.Mark Miller is a graduate of Juilliard and Yale University with an expertise in choral conducting, sacred music, and voice. His hymns and anthems are sung by communities of faith throughout the world, and his album, Imagine the People of God, is available on iTunes. He believes that music, social justice, and the beloved

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41:37

Bookstore Guy to Exvangelical (ft. Blake Chastain)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/09/11

In this bonus episode Leah and Andrew talk with Blake Chastain, the first person to use "exvangelical" as a hashtag (and host of the Exvangelical podcast) about his book, "Exvangelical and Beyond: How American Christianity Went Radical and the Movement That's Fighting Back." He shares about his time as a "bookstore guy" and how the academic concepts of "counter public" and "hyperobject" are helpful in understanding what's happening in American evangelicalism. In the Patreon-only version of

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45:16

Mother Is A Big Question

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/08/28

Today we're sharing an episode from another Big Questions Project podcast: Mother Is A Question. "This episode is called "Mother Is A Song," and we’re traveling to a place and time when mama was the muse–back when musicians in the U.S. were constantly singing about “the one who’s always true,” as one of these songs goes. One hundred years ago in the U.S., in the early days of recorded music, a lot of the songs people were listening to were about one particular person: mother. Thanks to

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38:15

Christian Ska's Upbeats and Beatdowns (ft. Leanor...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/08/14

If there's one music genre lampooned more than Christian rock, it might just be ska. And Christian ska? Expect next level ridicule. But a lovable band of misfits from Denver, Colorado managed to do something that might seem unthinkable: combine two maligned genres and become a cultural phenomenon with an enduring cult following. On the season two finale of Rock that Doesn't Roll, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a

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39:36

Yellow and Black Attack (ft. Michael Sweet of Stryper...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/07/31

Picture this. It's 1986. The Cold War is at a fever pitch. The whole world is locked into a conflict between the Forces of Freedom, and the Commies... at least that's how it felt to 80s kids. But the Cold War wasn't the only threat facing American society. Many feared that a much more sinister enemy lurking in the shadows: the devil himself. During the so-called satanic panic, parents worried that their kids would get caught by the Lord of Darkness, and rock - specifically heavy metal from

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40:58

Fictional Christian Music (ft. Righteous Gemstones'...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/07/17

How do you make fake Contemporary Christian Music? Creating fictional Christian music that feels authentic without crossing the line into parody or pastiche is a tricky artistic challenge. But we found the creators up to the task. Joseph Stephens, composer for HBO's The Righteous Gemstones, a crime-comedy about a family of musical televangelists, and composer Daniel Smith (Danielson) and filmmaker Chris White of Electric Jesus, an independent film about an aspiring 80s Christian metal band,

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45:25

The Paradox

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/07/03

KUOW's podcast Let The Kids Dance! is the story of Seattle's Teen Dance Ordinance in a seven-part docuseries chronicling an untold chapter of pop-culture history. It’s a story about moral panic, grassroots activism and an unstoppable music community that fought for its freedom, created and hosted by Jonathan Zwickel.The TDO made it impossible for venue owners to turn a profit while hosting all-ages shows. But the law contained a few exceptions, allowing concerts at nonprofit spaces and

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40:04

The DC Talk Test (ft. Jason Kirk and Kevin T. Porter)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/06/19

What happened to the kids raised during the peak era of Christian rock? For insight into the state of Christian rock's late 1990s-early aughts evangelicalism you need not look any further than members of DC Talk, the pinnacle of youth group music. Their trajectory as artists and public figures roughly maps on to the trajectories of the millions of teens raised in American evangelicalism. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions) surprises historian Leah Payne

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38:12

Purity Bros (ft. Joshua Harris)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/06/05

Purity culture wasn’t just for youth group “purity girls.” “Purity bros” were also a part of the project! No one knows that more than Joshua Harris, a CCM fan who helped turn purity culture into an extreme sport. Together with his friend, Christian music superstar Rebecca St. James, they created media that inspired a generation of evangelicals to say no to sex outside of marriage, but also to things like dating, kissing, holding hands, and a lot of other things. In this episode, journalist

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39:04

Purity Girls (ft. Nikki Leonti)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/05/22

In 2001, teen singing sensation Nikki Leonti was on her way to a promising Christian music career. She had two hit CCM records, and - as a pop princess who swore to refrain from premarital sex - the support of big evangelical media organizations like James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. But then, at age 18, the “purity girl” Leonti announced she was pregnant, and lost it all. With insight from author and podcaster Devi Abraham, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and

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40:59

Holy Hip Hop (ft. Soup The Chemist)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/05/08

In the 1990s, music critics argue that hip hop was in its golden age. Mainstream Top 40 charts were filled with hits from The Notorious B.I.G, Tupac Shakur, and Dr. Dre. But the Contemporary Christian charts lagged far, far behind. What took so long for holy hip hop to take off? With insight from Dr. Jonathan Calvillo (author of In the Time of Sky-Rhyming: How Hip Hop Resonated in Brown Los Angeles), journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave

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40:25

Undo Me (ft. Jennifer Knapp)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/04/24

In 1999, singer-songwriter Jennifer Knapp was at the top of the Christian music world. Her debut album Kansas was gold-certified, she'd won four Gospel Music Association Dove Awards, and she was on tour with some of the top bands in the business. It seemed like Knapp was destined to be the ultimate rockstar poster child for evangelical teens - especially young women. But that frame was an uncomfortable fit for Knapp. She was an adult convert, and the evangelical norms that young women

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02:13

Season Two Trailer

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/04/17

In the second season of Rock That Doesn't Roll, hosts Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill look at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now. Topics covered in season two include hip hop, feminism, purity culture, hair metal and more. Episodes publish every other week starting on April 24.Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336. If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon.

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