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PODCAST

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE"s Nico Perrino. New episodes post every other Thursday.

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All Episodes

58:26

Ep. 20 The ‘Turkey Purge’ w/ Mahir Zeynalov

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2017/01/26

If you care about free expression, you should care about what’s happening in Turkey. Since a failed July 15, 2016 coup attempt against Turkey President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the Turkish government has intensified the use of emergency decrees and laws against terrorist propaganda and insulting the president to purge perceived dissenters within civil society. On today’s episode, we are joined by journalist Mahir Zeynalov. Mahir writes for “The Huffington Post” and “Al Arabiya,” and was deported from

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49:35

Ep. 19 Ken White of ‘Popehat’ Talks Nat Hentoff,...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2017/01/12

Ken White has made a name for himself in First Amendment circles for his particularly astute and often comical commentary on free speech issues for the popular “law, liberty, and leisure” blog ‘Popehat.’ An attorney by day, Ken likes to use his considerable legal chops—he’s a 1994 graduate of Harvard Law School—to take a rhetorical axe to what he sees as facile arguments in favor of censorship. Ken is our guest on today’s episode of “So to Speak.” We talk with him about his list of the worst censors

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58:11

Ep. 18 Campus Free Speech Round Table: Fall 2016...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/12/29

A precipitous decline in the percentage of schools maintaining severely restrictive speech codes. A proliferation of bias response teams. “Security fee” or “speech tax?” Donald Trump. Milo Yiannopoulos. Penis drawings. These topics and more are covered in our recap of the fall 2016 semester, featuring Foundation for Individual Rights in Education vice presidents Samantha Harris and Will Creeley. Also, we take a listener question. www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter:

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01:12:24

Ep. 17 ACLU National Legal Director David Cole

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/12/15

In July, the ACLU tapped Georgetown University Law Center Professor David Cole to be its new national legal director. In that role, Cole will oversee nearly 300 lawyers and a docket of about 1,400 state and federal lawsuits. On today’s episode of “So to Speak,” Wall Street Journal Supreme Court Correspondent Jess Bravin interviews Cole about his new job and explores some of the hottest topics in the First Amendment world: flag burning, campaign finance reform, what can legally be done about rising

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48:40

Ep. 16 Free Speech Profiles: Attorney Martin Garbus

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/12/01

Attorney Martin Garbus’ client list is a who’s who of the world’s foremost artists, politicians, corporations, scientists, and political dissidents. In a career spanning a half century, he’s represented actors Sean Connery and Al Pacino, authors Tom Brokaw and Nancy Reagan, and even Nobel Prize winners Vaclav Havel and Andrei Sakharov. Although Garbus holds a diverse practice, he is perhaps most famous—and in some circles, infamous—for his work in First Amendment law. In today’s episode of “So to

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38:39

Ep. 15 Denying the Holocaust

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/11/17

In 1996, Emory University Professor Deborah Lipstadt found herself in a peculiar situation: she and a team of lawyers would have to defend the truth about the Holocaust against British historian and famed Holocaust denier David Irving. It was a quirk of the English legal system that allowed the battle to play out in court. In England, the burden of proof in libel cases rests on the defendant, not the plaintiff. So, when David Irving filed a libel lawsuit against Professor Lipstadt and her British

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43:34

Ep. 14 NYU Professor Stephen Solomon’s ‘Revolutionary...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/11/03

The time of America’s founding was full of raucous debate and widespread dissent. Americans built effigies, wrote pamphlets, sang songs, and gathered at liberty trees to protest British rule. But while citizens of the 13 colonies, and later America, might have acted like they had a right to express themselves in the myriad ways that they did, the spectre of seditious libel—illegal statements criticizing the government—often hung over their heads. In “Revolutionary Dissent: How the Founding

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45:16

Ep. 13 spiked’s Brendan O’Neill on the Fight for Free...

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/10/20

“How do you make the case for freedom of speech these days?,” asks Brendan O’Neill in the latest episode of “So to Speak.” The question is a serious one for O’Neill. As the editor of the online British current-affairs magazine “spiked,” he is on the front lines every day fighting to preserve free speech and a free press in a legal environment that doesn’t have a First Amendment. In a part of the world that just last year imprisoned a man for four months for singing a controversial song before a

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30:53

Ep. 12 Flying Dog Brewery: ‘Good Beer, No Censorship’

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/10/06

“Two inflammatory words … one wild drink. Nectar imprisoned in a bottle. Let it out. It is cruel to keep a wild animal locked up.” When artist and illustrator Ralph Steadman wrote those words for the label of Flying Dog Brewery’s “Raging Bitch” Belgian-style IPA, he had no idea that cruel imprisonment would be precisely their fate. In 2009, the Michigan Liquor Control Commission banned the sale of “Raging Bitch” from store shelves in the state because the commission claimed the beer’s name and its

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55:01

Ep. 11 Robert Shibley’s ‘Twisting Title IX’

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/09/22

“Unfortunately, Title IX has really become unmoored from its original intention,” says Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) Executive Director Robert Shibley. Title IX is the 1972 law that prohibits sex discrimination in federally funded educational programs. The active part of the law is less than 40 words long. But in a forthcoming book entitled “Twisting Title IX,” Shibley argues that these words have been “twisted” by an activist Department of Education to violate the free speech

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43:10

Ep. 10 Jason Riley on Being ‘Disinvited’ from Campus

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/09/08

Earlier this year, Jason Riley was “disinvited” from speaking at Virginia Tech due to concerns that his writings on race would spark campus protests. The Wall Street Journal columnist, Fox News commentator, and Manhattan Institute senior fellow wasn’t alone in seeing an invitation to speak on campus be revoked due to concerns that his appearance might prove controversial. He was in distinguished company. Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, columnist George Will, International Monetary Fund

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38:22

Ep. 9 Alice Dreger on Academic Freedom

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/08/25

Every year, the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education puts out a list of the 10 worst colleges for free speech. And this year, surprisingly, half of the schools on the list earned their spot because they threatened faculty’s right to speak out in some way. One institution on that list was Northwestern University. Last year, Northwestern made headlines for its extraordinary attacks on academic freedom on two separate occasions. Once for its 72-day Title IX investigation into Professor Laura

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01:09:42

Ep. 8 ‘The Trials of Lenny Bruce’

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/08/11

His trials began with a police bust at the Jazz Workshop in San Francisco in October 1961, and ended with an obscenity conviction in New York in November 1964. Stand-up comedy legend Lenny Bruce underwent 35 months—1,062 days—of nonstop persecution and prosecution for the content of his act. It was 50 years ago this month that an autopsy would report that Bruce died of an overdose of morphine on August 3, 1966. But anyone who knows his story knows it was more complicated than that. Billboard’s Phil

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01:05:29

Ep. 7 The Daughters: Carlin, Pryor, and Bruce Speak Out

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/07/28

Kelly Carlin, Rain Pryor, and Kitty Bruce are the daughters of the godfathers of comedy. Their fathers, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, and Lenny Bruce, shaped the stand-up comedy you hear today. If you listen to any of their routines and none of them surprise you, it’s because they influenced every comedian who came later. In this exclusive interview, the daughters speak out for the first time together about their fathers and the censorship fights that all three comedy legends combatted in their

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20:48

Ep. 6 The Summer Interns Take Over

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/07/14

Nationwide polls on support for free speech are full of contradictions. Research conducted by Gallup, the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, and the Newseum Institute earlier this year found widespread support from college students for free speech in the abstract. However, the same poll also found tepid support when students were asked about specifics. According to the poll, a majority of respondents believed colleges should be able to restrict intentionally offensive speech and costumes that

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57:56

Ep. 5 Aryeh Neier on “Defending My Enemy”

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/06/30

He has a glittering civil liberties résumé: co-founder of Human Rights Watch, president of the Open Society Foundations for nearly 20 years, professor of civil rights law. But before all of that, Aryeh Neier was the executive director of the ACLU during one of its most turbulent moments: when it came to the defense of neo-Nazis trying to exercise their right to free speech and assembly in Skokie, Illinois in 1977. In this week’s episode, we speak with Neier about that time and about his seminal 1979

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52:47

Ep. 4 2015–16 Campus Free Speech Year in Review

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/06/16

The 2015–16 school year was a headline-grabbing year for free speech on campus. Even President Barack Obama felt compelled to weigh in on the conversation. Multiple times. In this episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we chat with FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE Director of Policy Research Samantha Harris—two of FIRE’s longest-serving employees—about what made this past year so unique. What were the biggest campus free speech stories? What did we see coming? What took us by

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37:48

Ep. 3 David Baugh on ‘Defending My Enemy’

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/06/02

Why did a black defense attorney, who fought against segregation in high school and battled racism in the courtroom, volunteer to defend the First Amendment rights of an Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan? David Baugh is a Richmond, Virginia-based attorney, who, while serving on the Board of Directors of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, volunteered to defend the Klansman Barry Elton Black’s right to burn a cross at a Klan rally. The case would eventually make its way up to the

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35:53

Ep. 2 Glenn Greenwald On “Defending My Enemy”

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/05/19

In discussions about free speech issues, you’ll often hear people say something to the effect of, “I disapprove of what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.” The quote is typically misattributed to the French Enlightenment thinker Voltaire. But proper crediting aside, the sentiment it expresses accurately reflects how many free speech advocates go about their work—including Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald is best known as one of the journalists who coordinated the 2013 National

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48:23

Ep. 1 Jonathan Rauch’s “Kindly Inquisitors”

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast ·

2016/05/05

In 1993, a young Jonathan Rauch published “Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought.” It was his response to what he saw as the West’s lackluster and apologetic defense of the novelist Salman Rushdie’s free speech rights. Since its publication, “Kindly Inquisitors” has never gone out of print and has been described by Foundation for Individual Rights in Education President & CEO Greg Lukianoff as the best modern defense of free speech and by “The Washington Post” columnist George Will as

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