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PODCAST

8th Layer Insights

Perry Carpenter | N2K Networks

Get ready for a deep dive into what cybersecurity professionals often refer to as the "8th Layer" of security: HUMANS. Welcome to 8th Layer Insights (8Li). This podcast is a multidisciplinary exploration into how the complexities of human nature affect security and risk. Author, security researcher, and behavior science enthusiast Perry Carpenter taps experts for their insights and illumination. Topics include cybersecurity, psychology, behavior science, communication, leadership, and more.

technology social sciences

All Episodes

66:09

Blending Awareness, Social Engineering, and Physical...

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/08/29

On today's show, Perry sits down with Jayson E. Street to discuss his unique blend of social engineering, physical penetration testing, and security awareness. Jayson refers to this as being trained by a simulated adversary. At the heart of Jayson's method is intense boldness in his approach to social engineering and penetration testing coupled with an equally intense passion for helping his clients and their employees improve their overall security posture and mindsets. It's about education rather

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65:21

How to Fool the White House (Encore)

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/08/08

Hey all! I'm at BlackHat and Defcon this week. If you're there, track me down. I'd love to meet you! This week's episode is an encore of one of my favorites. My interview with James Linton (a.k.a. The Email Prankster). In 2017, James went on a virtual joyride exploiting the ways that people interact with emails. One of the most interesting things about James' story is that his exploits didn't rely on any type of highly technical method(s); they were simple display name deceptions. But that didn't

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43:12

We are the Champions

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/07/26

There has been a lot of buzz for the past few years about the benefits and importance of establishing security champions programs. These are groups of people in your organization who become vital, responsible, and proactive contributing evangelists to the security culture of your organization. I often refer to them as "culture carriers." And, while there is general agreement that these are good programs to have, establishing them is currently a bit of a dark art. On today's show, Perry sits down

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45:25

Something Wicked This Way Comes: PenTesting Your...

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/06/20

On this episode, Perry sits down with Chad Peterson, Managing Director at NetSPI, to discuss the importance of penetration testing. We touch on aspects of social engineering, discussing complex security issues with Boards of Directors, the prevalence of Ransomware, and some of the unique challenges facing the healthcare industry. Guest: Chad Peterson (LinkedIn) (Twitter) Books & References (Books are Amazon Associate links) CISO Desk Reference Guide: A Practical Guide for CISOs by Bill Bonney,

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45:59

Carrots, Sticks, and Culture: The Art and Science of...

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/06/06

On this episode, what cybersecurity professionals need to understand about how social signaling and incentives really work. Today's episode features a conversation with Uri Gneezy. In the field of cybersecurity, we are very interested in identifying proactive and positive ways to encourage the behavior we want. That's where Uri comes in. Uri is a well-known behavioral economist and professor of economics and strategy in the Rady School of Management at the University of California at San Diego. Most

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71:09

Hacking the Paranormal -- a conversation with Banachek

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/05/23

In this episode, Perry Carpenter sits down with renowned mentalist and skeptic, Banachek. Banachek (Steve Shaw) grew up with a fascination in magic and a frustration with psychic frauds. As a teenager, he contacted magician and skeptic, James “The Amazing” Randi and ended up working with Randi on a special initiative known as Project Alpha, which set out to expose a general lack of objectivity in parapsychology research. Banachek served as the director for the James Randi Educational Foundation’s

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48:00

What Cybersecurity Pros can Learn from Star Wars

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/05/09

This week's episode is a late Star Wars ("May the 4th Be With You") celebration. We check out a couple interesting articles about security-related lessons embedded in the Star Wars movies, and Perry sits down with Adam Shostack, author of the new book, Threats: What Every Engineer Should Learn From Star Wars to discuss threat modeling principles using Star Wars related examples. Guest: Adam Shostack (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Website) Books & References (Books are Amazon Associate links) Threats:

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45:30

Postcards from the Intersection of Cybersecurity and...

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/04/25

Welcome to season 4, episode 1 of 8th Layer Insights! On this episode, Perry speaks with Josiah Dykstra (Senior Fellow, Office of Innovation at the National Security Agency) about the new book he co-authored with Eugene Spafford and Leigh Metcalf. The book is titled Cybersecurity Myths and Misconceptions: Avoiding the Hazards and Pitfalls that Derail Us, This topic coincides well with Perry's recent studies into folklore and urban legends for his other podcast, Digital Folklore. Guests: Josiah

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72:04

Season 3 finale: What's the deal with Authentication,...

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/01/24

For the last episode of season 3, I thought we'd talk about something that's been in the news quite a lot recently: Authentication and Password Managers. As security professionals, we've decried the password for decades. Multifactor authentication (MFA) has started to gain popularity... but not without its own issues. Security leaders and tech teams may have once again hoped for a silver bullet, only to be disappointed to find out that crafty attackers can easily bypass MFA. We've also been touting

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14:20

Quick announcement and sneak peek of my new show:...

8th Layer Insights ·

2023/01/10

Hey all! An announcement and something special! First, the announcement: Here's your chance to participate in the final episode of 8Li season 3. If you’ve got a question or comment that you’d like me to try to answer or respond to, leave a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/8Li. Frankly, that would make it more engaging than if I just read your questions. But, if you aren’t able to record a message or don’t want your voice on the show, then you can email me your questions at

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47:09

Cybersecurity, Creativity, Leadership: a Conversation...

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/12/27

On this episode, Perry speaks with Chris Cochran and Ron Eddings. Chris and Ron started the Hacker Valley Studio Podcast back in June of 2019 with the goal of exploring the human condition to inspire peak performance in cybersecurity. The podcast is about Chris and Ron’s quest to find inspirational stories and knowledge to elevate themselves and their communities. That podcast eventually kicked off a journey that led them to create their own podcast network (Hacker Valley Media), foster communities,

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51:24

Your Life, Their Profit: Buyer Awareness in the 21st...

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/12/13

On this episode, Perry sits down with Marta L. Tellado, President and CEO at Consumer Reports, to discuss the digital moment we are in and what that means for consumers and the marketplace: the risks, dangers, traps… and also the places and paths that can lead to progress. They also discuss Marta's new book, Buyer Aware: Harnessing Our Consumer Power for a Safe, Fair, and Transparent Marketplace. Guest: Marta L. Tellado (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Website) Books and References: Fighting For a Fair

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64:52

[Holiday Replay] The Battle for Truth:...

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/11/29

Get ready for those 'fun' holiday dinner conversations with friends and family. You know the ones... In the spirit of the holidays, I thought we'd revisit Season 1, Episode 2. This is an episode about the battle for truth. As disinformation, misinformation, malinformation, and conspiracy theories seem to be hitting epidemic levels, how can we help each other determine what is real and what is fake? How can we help people who are falling down conspiracy rabbit holes? And what roles do technology

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51:40

Spycraft: A Behind the Curtain Look into the...

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/11/15

There is something about a good spy story that seems to really resonate with people in the cybersecurity world. We love watching the moves and the counter moves, and the sneaking around, and the social engineering, and hacking, and all of the gadgets and toys, and car chases, and fights and double crosses and triple crosses. Yeah, you get the point. But how much of that is real and how much can be chalked up to an author's creative license? And what's life and work like for real people in the

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69:42

8th Layer Insights and the Quest for Security Culture

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/11/01

For this week, we are revisiting a previous episode that first aired as Season 1 Episode 10. In this episode, we discuss the concept of security culture -- specifically, the difficulty that security leaders have in defining what a security culture actually is. Luckily, we can draw on learnings from organizational culture management and culture transformation experts. Guests for this episode include, David Sturt, Executive Vice President of the O.C. Tanner Institute, author of Great Work: How to Make

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36:21

Social Engineering and Breaking into Stuff with Jenny...

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/10/18

On this episode, Perry sits down with Jenny Radcliffe (a.k.a. The People Hacker). Jenny is a well-known speaker, podcaster, professional social engineer, and physical penetration tester… in other words, she’s a social engineer who specializes not only in tricking people into doing things they shouldn’t do… but she also specializes getting into places she shouldn’t be and finding things she shouldn’t be able to find. Her job is to embody the criminal mindset and use the skills of a criminal to find

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47:28

Open Source Intelligence (OSINT): The Data We Leak

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/10/04

Over the past few years, there's been a lot of talk about the value of understanding Open Source Intelligence (OSINT). But, even with so much talk, relatively few cybersecurity professionals have had the time to take a deep dive into the topic. In this episode, Perry sits down with social engineer, OSINT investigator, and member of the OSINT Curious project, Christina Lekati to get an overview of the value of OSINT as well as some basic techniques. After that, we hear from Chris Kirsch (co-founder

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45:24

The Secrets to Consistently Creating Great Content

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/09/20

In this episode, Perry talks about the value of storytelling and provides 7 tips for anyone who faces the fear associated with staring at a blank screen, wondering how they can begin to create fresh content. This is adapted from a presentation Perry recently gave at the 2022 SANS Security Awareness Summit. Books & Resources: Overview of "The Iron Triangle" Visual Summary of Perry's SANS Security Awareness Summit presentation YouTube Video: You are not a storyteller - Stefan Sagmeister @

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49:22

If It's Smart, It's Vulnerable: a Conversation with...

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/09/06

In this episode, Perry sits down with Mikko Hyppönen for a wide ranging discussion about the history, current state, and future of cybersecurity. We also discuss Mikko's new book, the title of which is derived from Hyppönen's Law: If It's Smart, It's Vulnerable. Guest: Mikko Hyppönen (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Web) Books & Resources: If It's Smart, It's Vulnerable, by Mikko Hyppönen Mikko's TED Talks Daemon, by Daniel Suarez Internet of Things and data placement, by Dell

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45:30

Finding Your Path: Mid-Career Moves into Cybersecurity

8th Layer Insights ·

2022/08/23

This is a follow-up to Season 2, episode 4 –Bridging the Cyber Skills Gap. Many listeners contacted me saying that they loved the episode, but wished that I’d put more focus on people trying to find a career in cybersecurity later in life. So, consider this episode a Bridging the Cyber Skills Gap Part 2. We’ll hear the stories of several people who’ve come to cybersecurity a bit later in life. This episode features interviews with Alethe Denis, Tracy Z. Maleeff (a.k.a. InfoSec Sherpa), Phillip

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