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Law and Chaos

Ignorance of the law is no excuse! That"s true for a traffic stop, and it"s true if you want to participate in whatever"s left of American democracy. If the events since the 2016 election taught us anything, it"s that tuning out is not an option. Legal journalists Liz Dye and Andrew Torrez break down the week"s most important courtroom stories, so you can keep on top of this crazy news cycle. Whether it"s Texas giving two middle fingers to the Supreme Court, or Donald Trump in all the courts at

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All Episodes

01:03:01

Ep 139 — You Get A Civ Pro, And You Get A Civ Pro…

Law and Chaos ·

2025/06/06

Justin Baldoni’s lawyers are wilding out, the Justice Department is suing to purge North Carolina’s voter rolls, and Pillow Pumper Mike Lindell is teaching us about journalism shield laws. And for subscribers: Have Trump’s minions discovered one weird trick that will allow them to steal Congress’s tariff authority? Links: Kingdom v. Trump https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69717615/kingdom-v-trump/ Trump's Justice Department examining pardons issued by Biden

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01:00:03

Ep 138 — Trump Admin Courts Contempt In Every Court...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/06/03

The Trump Administration is putting the Justice Department in a terrible bind. DOJ lawyers can tell judges the truth and admit that the government is deliberately violating court orders. Or they can bob and weave and prevaricate and cross their fingers and hope it all comes out okay. But that strategy is running into a brick wall as courts are increasingly ruling against the government. Plus for subscribers: How low will SCOTUS go to protect the sacred right to walk around with a giant murder cannon

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01:09:19

Ep 137 — Trump’s Bad Week In All The Courts

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/30

This week Trump got his ass kicked in courts no one’s ever heard of! From tariffs to immigration, Harvard to WilmerHale, it’s been a week of losing bigly. Andrew and Liz will break it down and explain what’s next. Links: Harvard College v. Department of Health and Human Services [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69921962/president-and-fellows-of-harvard-college-v-us-department-of-health-and/ V.O.S. Selections, Inc. v. Trump [District Court Docket via Court

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01:00:22

Ep 136 — Trump Announces Plan To Break Law. Gets...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/27

President Trump’s genius plan to announce that he’s about to violate the First Amendment — and then do it! — runs into the judicial buzzsaw as two federal courts restrain his attacks on Harvard and the law firm Jenner & Block. And his campaign’s lawsuit against Iowa pollster Ann Selzer continues to be a humiliating series of self-owns. But SCOTUS hands the administration a win by allowing the president to fire anyone and everyone. They exempted Fed Chair Jerome Powell for, uh, reasons. Links:

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57:37

Ep 135 — Deadpool Teaches Civ Pro & Church And State...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/23

It’s been another wild week of injunctions, executive orders, and just plain insanity from the Trump administration. Then, we’ll let Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni teach us about civil procedure. And for a deep dive, we discuss a surprising recusal from Justice Barrett that preserves what’s left of the separation of church and state. Links: How Trump Officials Debated Handling of the Abrego Garcia Case: ‘Keep Him Where He Is’

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01:08:38

Ep 134 — Everybody Hates Sam (and ChatGPT)

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/20

The Supreme Court does one good thing on immigration, which made Sam Alito BIG MAD. And although the administration has been stymied (for now) in its efforts to rendition detainees out of the country with no notice, the Supreme Court did allow the Trump administration to end Temporary Protected Status for hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans. Then, since we all need a good chuckle, we spend some time pointing and laughing at California’s plan to outsource the bar exam to an AI chatbot. And in the

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01:01:06

Ep 133 — The Supreme Court is LAWLESS (feat. Leah...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/16

Today, Liz and Andrew interview Prof. Leah Litman about her book Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes. And, as if to prove the point, the Supreme Court today entertained absolutely nonsense arguments in the birthright citizenship cases about how district courts can’t issue the kind of injunctions they’ve issued for the past two centuries because it would make Trump sad. Links: Leah Litman’s Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on

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01:01:18

Ep 132 — For My Friends, A Plane. For My Enemies, The...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/13

Meta thinks that if you steal tens of millions of books, the value of each individual theft rounds down to zero. Is that the law? (No.) Also, the Qatari Royal family wants to give Donald Trump a half-billion-dollar plane and make the US government pay to renovate it. Turns out, that hasn’t been legal for more than two hundred years, but who’s counting? Oh, and the administration arrested the Mayor of Newark. Rumeysa Ozturk is free, though, so it’s not all bad news. Links: Ozturk v. Hyde

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01:02:50

Ep 131 — Trial Judges Know What’s Up

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/09

While SCOTUS is MIA, trial judges across the country are stepping up. The full Circuit Court in DC leaps in to save Voice of America from the May hell panel hearing emergency appeals. A judge in Maryland orders the government to facilitate the return of a man wrongly deported to the Salvadoran gulag. No, not Kilmar Abrego Garcia — another one! In New York, a third trial judge rules that we are NOT under invasion by Venezuela. And in Alabama, trial judges ordered the state to fix its racist maps

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01:01:53

Ep 130 — The Justice Department Is Borked

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/06

On today’s episode, we break down how Radio Free Europe just might be the key to preserving the separation of powers in America. We talk the Tucker Act and all of the pretextual, vapid, and/or just plain wrong arguments coming out of Trump’s Department of Justice. Perkins Coie wins their case in front of Our Favorite Beryl, a dingus is trying to sue Chief Justice John Roberts, and Maine’s Governor Janet Mills promised the President she’d see him in court. Four days later, the administration caved,

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53:08

Ep 129 — No, We Are Not At War With Venezuela

Law and Chaos ·

2025/05/02

Well, it’s finally happened. A federal judge has finally ruled that we are not being invaded by Venezuela and so the president can’t just shout “ALIEN ENEMIES ACT” as an excuse to kidnap people and send them to a torture gulag in El Salvador. And it was a Trump appointee who did it! Also, Mike Lindell is somehow still here. Links: Conservative Judge Saves VOA, Savages SCOTUS https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/conservative-judge-saves-voa-savages J.A.V. v. Trump [Docket via Court Listener]

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56:22

Ep 128 — Trump Plan Impress Judges By Perpwalking One...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/29

Judges across the country are calling BS on the Trump administration’s lies in court. But the government has come up with a genius plan to impress the judiciary by perpwalking a Wisconsin judge out of her own courthouse. If that doesn’t work, they’ll try contaminated milk. Links: STRENGTHENING AND UNLEASHING AMERICA’S LAW ENFORCEMENT TO PURSUE CRIMINALS AND PROTECT INNOCENT CITIZENS

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01:01:13

Ep 127 — You get a TRO! And you get a TRO! Everyone...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/25

After burning down its credibility with every judge in the country, the Trump administration finds itself slapped with injunctions in every courtroom. Coincidence? Plus, the Department of Homeland Security discovers one weird trick to get around court orders barring deportations. And it is … to stand back and let the Defense Department do it for them! Links: MTA v. Duffy (NY Congestion Pricing) [Docket via Court Listener]

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55:13

Ep 126 — SCOTUS Decides Maybe There Is Something In...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/22

The Trump administration spent the weekend trying hard to rendition immigrants to foreign gulags. But Supreme Court took some baby steps this weekend toward maybe possibly doing their damn jobs and ensuring that the rule of law survives. And in the biggest surprise since the stock market dropping like a rock on news of crippling tariffs on China, Pete Hegseth is texting war plans AGAIN. And for subscribers, Harvard University sues the Trump administration. Links: D.V.D. v. Homeland Security

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59:16

Ep 125 — Trial Judges Stand Up As SCOTUS Cowers

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/18

Chief Justice Roberts and the howler monkeys rolled over and played dead. But lower court judges understand the assignment, including Fourth Circuit Judge Harvie Wilkinson, a conservative icon. He read Trump — and implicitly the Supreme Court — for filth. But will it be enough? Liz and Andrew discuss the latest developments in the Salvadoran rendition cases. Plus, Trump moves to put US taxpayers on the hook for the E. Jean Carroll verdict. Links: Abrego Garcia v. Noem [District Docket]

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01:00:08

Ep 124 — So Much For SCOTUS’s Brilliant Plan To Head...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/15

If Chief Justice Roberts thought he was going to protect the judiciary by throwing trial judges under the bus, he was spectacularly mistaken. The case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia is hurtling toward contempt proceedings, with the government in open defiance of the court’s order to un-kidnap him. And meanwhile, Attorney General Pam Bondi is running the Justice Department like an arm of the Trump campaign. And for subscribers: Trump steals lunch from poor kids in Maine because the state’s governor is nice

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48:40

Ep 123 — SCOTUS Will Protect Due Process. A Little...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/11

The Supreme Court had two big immigration rulings this week on deportees to the Salvadoran gulag prison: One terrible and one … marginally okay. Meanwhile at the White House, Tariff Man is running amok! Luckily, he extorted hundreds of millions of dollars worth of big firm billable hours to defend the government. But not from Susman Godfrey, the target of his latest wildly illegal executive order. Links: Tech Policy Podcast with Corbin Barthold (Liz and Andrew guest appearance)

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01:05:11

Ep 122 — Hang Together or Hang Separately (feat. Ken...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/08

Liz and Andrew sit down with fellow legal podcaster Ken White, AKA “Popehat,” to discuss the Trump administration’s attack on law firms. Who’s fighting? Who’s folding? And who’s f—ed? Plus an update on the case of the Maryland man deported to a torture prison in El Salvador, and the legal effort to get him home. And for subscribers: The DC Circuit considers if Humphreys Executor is dead, or just mostly dead? Links: Serious Trouble Podcast

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01:05:46

Ep 121 — Trump’s Tariff Math … It’s Dumber Than You...

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/04

Why does the President of the United States not know what tariffs are, why does he want to crash the world economy, and can he do any of it? We answer as many of those questions as we can. Come for phi times epsilon times m sub i, stay for the Trading With the Enemy Act of 1917. Plus! Judge James Boasberg in D.C. is NOT HAPPY the administration flouted his orders and intends to figure out who was responsible and why. Also, things are about to get ugly at the D.C. Circuit. Links: DC Circuit Local

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56:43

Ep 120 — All The President’s Restraining Orders

Law and Chaos ·

2025/04/01

Time to round up the latest in lawsuits against the Trump administration. The trans military ban is blocked. Renditioning Venezuelans to El Salvador without due process is blocked. The shutdown of the CFPB is blocked. The shutdown of the US Inst of Peace … not blocked. Yet! Liz and Andrew run down a bunch of the Trump cases and explain why it seems like every day brings another restraining order. (Hint: It’s because Trump wants to do lots of illegal stuff in a hurry.) Links: Name & Shame

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