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PODCAST

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Legal Talk Network

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law"s Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

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All Episodes

35:08

Tom Goldstein Should've Stuck With High Stakes Go Fish

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/01/22

You've got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em.------ Supreme Court litigator Tom Goldstein, co-founder of SCOTUSblog, is on the wrong side of the law facing a multi-count indictment related to the alleged fallout of a hard-core gambling lifestyle. All while routinely arguing multiple cases in front of the Supreme Court. Legen...wait for it...dary. Also Proskauer proves that every rose has its thorn and Yale stares down on of the most epic downgrades in law school history.

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31:47

Back To The Office Blues

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/01/15

Attorneys yearn for the commute.----- Sullivan & Cromwell are bringing attorneys back to the office five days a week. The stated reason is to mirror "normal business hours" which is a cruel joke in an abnormal business hour industry. Democratic Party superlawyer Marc Elias faces an uprising at his firm after staff proposed a mandatory arbitration agreement despite many of his top clients openly campaigning on... banning mandatory arbitration agreements. Finally, Wilson Sonsini hands out bonuses but

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37:03

Judges Decide Clarence Thomas Was Just Confused When...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/01/08

Statutes are hard.----- Apparently, Clarence Thomas just didn't understand how to read the nearly 50-year-old statute requiring him to report massively expensive gifts. That's the Judicial Conference's official take in a new letter to the Senate panel looking into the ethical cesspool. The letter becomes public just as Chief Justice Roberts releases his annual report asserting that most criticism of the Court should be seen as improper intimidation and even violence. Before the holidays, we

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36:33

Ho, Ho, Ho-Cast

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/12/26

A very jolly podcast.----- It's a very special holiday episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer with three straight "Ho" stories. First, Hogan Lovells irks associates with a bonus announcement without matching the industry standard special bonuses. Meanwhile, law enforcement just can't help making Luigi Mangione look more like a sexy martyr and now someone claiming to be UnitedHealthcare is trying to assert ownership of his likeness. And Judge James Ho walks back his prior support for birthright

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30:49

Lawyers Who Do Lunch

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/12/18

Bringing new meaning to the court's order.----- Can lunch save professional civility? Almost assuredly not, but one judge is going to try. Partnership isn't what it used to be. Instead of long careers with equity ownership, partners are making lateral jumps with more frequency than ever. More out of the murder of a Kentucky judge earlier this year... "running a brothel out of that courtroom" sounds ominous. ----- (00:00)Small Talk (02:15)Mysterious Drone Sightings (07:20)Lawyer Lunch

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36:12

Replacing Judges With AI And Other Stupid Ideas

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/12/11

Elon's got some thoughts on the judicial system.----- Elon Musk says his AI will be able to deliver judicial opinions as soon as he feeds it "all" the cases. It will not, but his impulse sheds some light on a disturbing lack of respect for the rule of law. A pair of judges planning to take senior status as soon as Biden confirmed their successors have withdrawn their plans after the Senate sat on their proposed openings. And law school applications are up big time... and that's not good news for a

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33:51

Law School Thought Pregnant Women Not Like Us

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/12/04

Get it? Combining two of the stories into one relevant title? ----- A pregnant law student sought modest accommodations when finals came over her due date. The school rejected the request saying, "Motherhood is not for the Faint of Heart." It did not go over well with fellow students. Or alumni. Or faculty. Or pretty much anyone. Drake accused the music industry of conspiring to help Kendrick demolish him in rap battle. RICO claims? They really not like us. Finally, Jonathan Turley accused liberal

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36:04

Law Firm Confidentiality Can't Be Left To The Honor...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/11/27

'Hey, please don't open this' is not a policy.----- A law firm left its confidential internal documents with juicy information unprotected and was shocked, SHOCKED to find out attorneys read them. Pam Bondi is next at bat for the Attorney General job. While her decision to drop an official investigation into Trump University conveniently after he started supporting her will get a lot of attention, don't sleep on the TAIL of her fight over another family's dog. And, finally, we have an un-bear-ably

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40:29

Judge Throws Temper Tantrum

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/11/20

Also... Matt Gaetz as Attorney General is something we have to contemplate?----- The Federalist Society conference included a tour de force in rhetorical fallacy from the Fifth Circuit's Judge Edith Jones, suggesting that it's an attack on the "rule of law" to talk about court reform and that such criticism results in death threats! Very cool. Very judicial. We also have a disturbing story out of Biglaw, and discuss the instant reaction to Matt Gaetz being nominated to serve as Attorney General and

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32:49

Biglaw Bonus Season Arrives!

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/11/13

The race is on.----- It's the most wonderful time of the year! Milbank continues to relish its role as the Pied Piper of Biglaw bonuses, once again jumping the traditional late November bonus announcement kickoff to set the bar for 2024 annual bonuses. We also learned that a number of firms make non-equity pay a share of the partnership expenses despite holding no equity. And one partner out there is using work email to complain about the neighbors with offensive terminology.

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33:03

Sir Sam Alito Decides No Pesky 'Constitution' Governs...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/11/06

That Governing Document Can't Stop Me Because I Can't Read!----- Sammy Alito openly defies the Constitution with European knighthood. Chicago Law tapes classes but isn't interested in letting students actually use those recordings. Students are, unsurprisingly, pissed. Professor Richard Epstein brags about replacing scientists with judges. Yes, the same guy who said COVID would only kill 500 people and got the first Trump administration sold on the idea. And mark your calendars for the lawyer movie

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33:14

There's No Studying In Here, This Is The Library!

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/10/30

Also, Tiffany may be number 1 in his heart (she's not), but she's also not number 1 in her class.----- Of all the iconic lines from Dr. Strangelove, maybe the best is "There's no fighting in here. This is the War Room!" Recently, Harvard began punishing students (and faculty) for silent library protests while studying almost as though maintaining a "non-disruptive atmosphere" isn't the school's real concern. Donald Trump brags about Tiffany Trump's class ranking... even though her law school

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31:17

In 2024 The GOP Is A Big Fan Of Teen Pregnancy

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/10/23

The republican party of the 1990s must be turning over in its grave because the modern GOP is arguing teen pregnancy is a good thing. Equity partnership in Biglaw is a financial windfall, unless you're in the 10-30% of partners getting a compensation cut. And do you like messy, I mean MESSY, legal drama? The latest from the Texas bankruptcy court romantic scandal is eye popping.

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40:37

Learning How To Be A Professional

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/10/16

From young attorneys to the Chief Justice, a lot of lawyers are dropping the ball.----- We've got some young lawyers out there who don't understand the basics of professionalism and it runs a lot deeper than just lacking experience. That said, there are some experienced attorneys falling down on fulfilling a different set of professional obligations. Meanwhile, Chief Justice Roberts is apparently very, very sad that the public didn't appreciate his latest Constitutional rewrite.

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19:40

Judge Decides To Just Make Up The Rules As She Goes...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/10/09

Why not?----- Kathryn Mizelle was rated unqualified by the ABA and it shows. The Trump appointee just took it upon herself to rewrite the law despite acknowledging that higher courts have explicitly declined to do so. But she's a very special snowflake apparently. Law school rankings are primed for a major shuffle if we're to believe the available data. And... why do we need a new Matlock?

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35:12

Eric Adams Must Really Hope Supreme Court Is Serious...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/10/02

The majority of the Supreme Court keeps diluting bribery laws and Eric Adams had best hope they aren't done yet.----- Eric Adams got indicted last week and quickly pulled out the big litigation guns to explain that the Supreme Court already said bribery was cool. Meanwhile, Jonathan Turley rushed to the embattled mayor's defense to explain why ACTUALLY it was way worse that AOC once wore a borrowed dress to a party. Judge Pauline Newman's fight to end the pocket impeachment her colleagues on the

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31:54

Debbie Does The Dormant Commerce Clause

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/09/25

Why do professors think everyone has to personally experience the facts to understand the law?----- Hardcore porn shows up in a law school lecture. You know, the rest of us managed to learn the relevant standards for obscenity laws within the context of the First Amendment without visual aides. Also, Diddy's lawyers forgot how track changes works with embarrassing results. And Judge Aileen Cannon doesn't know her Founding Fathers... how a flubbed disclosure form speaks to Originalism's cynical

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33:09

The Urge To Merge

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/09/18

Is bigger better? ----- Law firms are merging like crazy with announcement after announcement after announcement. What's driving this big push and is this just going to be the way of the future? Also a judge invites us to meet the new racist, same as the old racist and we discuss the next must have for anyone taking depositions.

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34:50

What is up with these federal judges?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/09/11

This week's episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer is all about the wild decisions made by federal judges. First up is a Trump judge doing Trump judge things -- but don't tell him that. There's a Ninth Circuit judge that keeps using his dissents to make political stump speeches, much to the chagrin of his colleagues. And the Second Circuit comes out against libraries, because we live in the dumbest timeline.

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41:59

Biglaw's Back To Office Misadventures

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2024/08/28

It's not so easy to bring everyone back.----- Latham announced a new 4-day office work week, bucking the 3-day consensus, but attorneys are wondering where they plan to put everybody. Meanwhile Milbank is so eager to get to work that they're inviting first-years to start early. Another firm joins the non-equity partner ranks, and the DOJ files an antitrust case with some of the hottest docs ever.

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