Messy Social Work

55:00

Episode 100: One hundred episodes of Messy Social Work

Messy Social Work ·

2026/10/04

In this special 100th episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich Devine and Tim Fisher hit pause to reflect on the journey so far. Armed with a list of 100 AI-generated questions inspired by their previous episodes, they take each other on a whistle-stop tour through five years of conversations, debates, learning, and occasional technical disasters. Together they explore what they've learned from speaking with academics, practitioners, people with lived experience, and thought leaders fro...

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66:22

Terri-Anne on care experience, loneliness and the...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/09/28

In this episode of This Is Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim are joined once again by care-experienced advocate, project worker and Churchill Fellow, Terri-Anne Hamer. Terri-Anne shares insights from her Churchill Fellowship research exploring how we break intergenerational cycles of child removal. From Denmark to Jamaica, her travels challenged assumptions and revealed a surprisingly consistent message: while services matter, what often makes the greatest difference is belonging, community and...

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59:34

"I call her my second mum" The extraordinary...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/09/18

What difference can one consistent relationship make in a young person's life? In this moving and deeply honest episode, Rich and Tim are joined by care leaver Shakira Peart and her Personal Advisor Sarah Fisher. Together, they reflect on a seven-year relationship that has endured through trauma, loss, domestic abuse, homelessness, mental health challenges, parenting struggles, and ultimately, remarkable personal growth. Shakira speaks candidly about losing her mum at 14, living with undiagno...

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71:21

What social workers get wrong in court: Insights from...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/09/11

In this episode, Richard Devine sits down with family law barrister Gemma Chapman to explore the intersection between social work, family justice and advocacy. Gemma shares her journey into family law, what she enjoys most about being a barrister, and some of the challenges that come with working in a complex and emotionally demanding field. Together, we discuss what makes an effective social worker, the qualities of a strong social work expert witness, and the common pitfalls practitioners c...

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55:57

Rich and Tim relational skills, networks, theory and...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/09/03

In the second part of their Family Group Decision Making (FGDM) series, Richard Devine and Tim Fisher explore themes six to ten, moving beyond process and practice into the relational, cultural and leadership dimensions of family-led decision-making. The conversation explores: The relational skills and mindsets that underpin effective FGDM, including invitational practice, holding space, emotional containment, cultural humility and creating environments where families experience dignity...

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53:19

Rich and Tim on Family Group Decision Making: Power,...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/08/30

In this episode, Richard Devine and Tim Fisher explore the first five themes of Family Group Decision Making (FGDM), unpacking the philosophy, values and practice wisdom behind one of the most significant relational approaches in children's and family services today. Together, they discuss the Māori origins of Family Group Conferencing in Aotearoa New Zealand and how FGDM has evolved into a strengths-based, family-led approach that places decision-making power closer to children, families and...

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62:38

Rich and Tim speak to Peter Block: relationships,...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/08/19

Flawless Consulting by Peter Block has sold more than a million copies and is widely regarded as one of the most influential books ever written about consulting. But what can a business classic teach social workers, practice leads, and change agents working in complex public services? In this episode, Rich and Tim put Peter Block's ideas to the test through two live consulting dilemmas drawn from their own work. Rich explores the challenge of leading a systemic practice transformation from wi...

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68:44

Rich and Tim speak to Lee Crouch, a parent with lived...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/07/31

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

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57:02

Rich and Tim on practice lessons from the death of...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/07/24

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

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54:55

Rich and Tim on practice lessons from the death of...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/07/17

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

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36:39

Connecting Research: Why social workers turn a blind...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/07/13

Why do experienced professionals sometimes fail to see what is right in front of them? In this episode of Connecting Research, we explore Margaret Rustin's influential analysis of the Victoria Climbié case and her argument that professional failures in child protection are not simply the result of poor practice, incompetence, or inadequate procedures. Instead, they can reflect powerful psychological and organizational defenses against unbearable emotional realities. Drawing on psychoanalytic ...

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42:07

Rich and Tim on uncertainty, relationships and 14...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/07/07

In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim discuss Richard's recent blog, 14 Lessons from 11 Years at Bath and North East Somerset Council, written as he prepares to leave frontline children's social work after more than a decade in B&NES and take up a leadership role in Solihull. Together, they explore fourteen reflections shaped by years of child protection practice, relationships with children and families, mistakes, uncertainty, and the ongoing challenge of working...

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75:23

Rich and Tim speak to ex-undercover police officer...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/06/26

In this episode, we’re joined by former undercover drugs officer Neil Woods to explore the ideas at the heart of his book Good Cop, Bad War. Drawing on over a decade working covertly inside drug markets, Neil gives a sobering account of how the “war on drugs” actually plays out on the ground - and why, in his view, it so often makes things worse rather than better. Neil talks about what he witnessed firsthand: the way enforcement can unintentionally strengthen organised crime, increase violen...

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69:36

Rich and Tim speak to foster carer Gareth K Thomas:...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/06/19

In this episode, we sit down with foster carer Gareth K Thomas to explore his experiences of caring for children who have lived through trauma, and what it really means to offer trauma-informed care in practice. Gareth shares honest reflections on the realities of foster care - the rewards, the challenges, and the emotional impact of supporting children who have experienced adversity. We talk about how trauma shows up in behaviour, how carers can make sense of what they’re seeing, and the imp...

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62:51

Rich and Tim get headlines form Mithran Samuel’s, and...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/06/12

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

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54:57

Rich and Tim speak to social worker Rose Byrne about...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/06/05

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

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56:11

Rich and Tim speak to Maddy McCormack (Social Worker)...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/05/22

In this episode, we speak with Maddy McCormack, a social worker early in her career, about the realities of stepping into practice with children and families. Maddy reflects on her route into the role, what day-to-day social work actually looks like, and what she’s had to learn beyond training to be effective in her first year. We explore how she builds relationships with young people and their families, especially in contexts of risk, conflict, and uncertainty. She speaks candidly about the ...

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70:34

Rich and Tim speak to Sharon Shoesmith about Baby P,...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/05/15

In this episode, we sit down with Sharon Shoesmith to revisit one of the most defining and contentious moments in modern child protection: the case of Baby P, and the national reaction that followed. Sharon reflects candidly on what it meant to become the focus of public anger—labelled, scrutinised, and ultimately removed from her role—despite leading a service that had been judged as “good” by Ofsted. We explore the personal toll of that experience and the powerful social and political...

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82:09

Rich and Tim introduce Systemic Ideas in Social Work...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/05/08

In this episode of the Messy Social Work podcast, we begin with a conversation with Natasha Dube, before Rich and Tim discuss Liz Bosanquet’s new book, Systemic Social Work Practice. The discussion explores how systemic ideas can move beyond theory and into everyday practice, helping practitioners think relationally about families, organisations and the wider systems shaping people’s lives. A conversation about curiosity, context, relationships and what systemic practice looks like in the rea...

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45:23

BONUS Episode: Rich and Tim Speak with Charlotte...

Messy Social Work ·

2026/05/06

In this second bonus episode, Rich, Tim and Charlotte build directly on Part 1, turning their attention to the four remaining ideas from Rich’s blog on resilience in social work and exploring how these play out in practice. The conversation moves beyond individual productivity and into the ethical and emotional costs of working under sustained pressure. Drawing on Vikki Reynolds’ work, the episode explores burnout not as a personal failing, but as a response to spiritual pain, moral distress ...

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