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PODCAST

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Legal Talk Network

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law"s Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

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All Episodes

34:53

Telling My Grandkids Judge Aileen Cannon Was Just...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/09/07

See, it was an elaborate art piece to demonstrate the futility of law. We breakdown the shenanigans involved in the latest Trump search warrant order... which is in a civil matter... with a different judge... invoking privileges Trump doesn't have... granting relief he didn't even ask for. What does any of that even mean? Good luck to the judge's clerks in their future endeavors after getting handcuffed to this! We also discuss debt relief and how it impacts law students. And we discuss Jones Day

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30:14

Trump Judge's Crim Pro Choose Your Own Adventure

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/08/31

Um... 28 U.S.C. Section... Why Not? The Donald Trump warrant fight provides a scattershot of weird challenges to unravel for the non-lawyers in our lives. We've got collateral attacks and special masters and still no clear sense of how there's any jurisdiction for any of it. But he's found a judge seemingly willing to play along. As a reminder, the job of finding judges like these belongs to Leonard Leo, the guru behind the Federalist Society who now has a billion in shadowy money to play with

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23:10

Humanitarian Crises Strike The Legal Profession

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/08/24

We didn't plan to get this deep into the feels, but here we are. Kathryn and Joe sat down to talk about a couple human interest stories in law. Joe discusses the story of AXDRAFT, a Ukraine-based legal tech provider (part of the Onit family) and its struggles and triumphs in the face of an ongoing catastrophe while Kathryn talks about an Afghan judge who fled the country with her law degree sewn into her clothes. All this and a brief chat about ILTACON.

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30:15

Trump's Legal Braintrust May Need To Take Remedial...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/08/17

The FBI's search of Trump's residence has brought on a whole lot of caterwauling on cable news and social media from lawyers and law professors in Trump's orbit. Yet no one seems able (or willing) to accurately describe the whole warrant process. Meanwhile, a federal judge is pulling the rug out from his replacement -- who would diversify the bench -- for the stupidest reason. And a new report suggests that neural implants will replace the billable hour by forcing lawyers to bill by brain activity

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30:06

Punitive Damages Cap In Alex Jones Case Is The...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/08/10

Alex Jones is not going to be paying anything near what the jury determined. While slapping Alex Jones with $45 million in punitive damages for defaming the families of Sandy Hook Elementary shooting victims. But the state of Texas makes juries deliberate and then substitutes its own cap for their decision. Thanks for your jury service, but we've decided to go in a different direction! Now get out! We also talk about the tax controversy surrounding Ivana Trump's final resting place, the Supreme

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35:14

Bar Exam Working To Prove Its Own Irrelevancy

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/08/03

This podcast must vest, if at all, within 21 years... The bar exam decided to ask a couple of rule against perpetuities questions, obliterating its last claim to legitimacy -- that it teaches real-life practical law. Another reminder that licensing is broken and we need to take bold steps to reform it. Clarence Thomas opted to give up his cushy seminar at George Washington Law and some people are whining about that. And Nicholas Sandmann's "epic" defamation lawsuit against the entire mainstream

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32:55

Don't Do What This Lawyer Did

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/07/27

Mistakes were made. A lawyer tried to get away with a little misogynistic insulting in open court. It did not end well for him. Meanwhile, a Biglaw partner laments low hours and associates skipping out on the office. This should be a warning to associates as the economy cools because whether or not this is fair, this is the sort of thinking that guides layoff decisions. And the bar exam is here and so are all the indignities. Like asking applicants to spend over $100 on lunch.

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34:31

Maybe Elon Musk Shouldn't Have Waived All Those...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/07/20

Due diligence is your friend, Elon. Twitter has sued Elon Musk for walking away from his plans to purchase the company and it's hard to see how Musk gets out of this unscathed. Twitter's deal lawyers negotiated a pretty ironclad agreement, Musk's complaints fail basic logic, and Delaware law is roundly against him. But other than that, he's doing great! We also talk about the value of impeaching Supreme Court justices for lying during the confirmation process -- even if there's no hope of removal --

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33:19

Doth Protest Too Much? Not According To The Supreme...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/07/13

Plus Texas targets Biglaw. Since the Dobbs opinion came down, Supreme Court justices have faced protests outside their homes and outside their favorite restaurants. The Supreme Court asked local officials to clamp down on it and Morton's Steakhouse used its JD from the Filet Mignon School of Law, but the Court's problem is its own pesky precedents catching up with it. We also discuss the threat Texas legislators sent to Sidley Austin suggesting it would go after the firm for its health plan covering

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35:18

Hearsay Schmearsay

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/07/06

January 6 hearings invite a more hearsay mistakes than the bar exam. Hearsay isn't the easiest concept in the world in application, but compared to the "fertile octogenarian" it's at least straightforward. The complexity is in all the exceptions, not hearsay itself. And yet the January 6 hearings invited a lot of hearsay talk that wildly missed the mark. The gang also takes a look back at the now concluded Supreme Court Term -- and the nightmarish preview the justices dropped on the last day -- and

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37:48

Supreme Court Isn't Even Trying Anymore

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/06/29

Constitutional law is more of a vibe now. Well there's not much to talk about in the legal world besides the Supreme Court so... let's do that. The Court ruled that state legislatures are both free to craft the laws that suit their state and that state legislatures are dangerously lawless entities that must be crushed by judicial fiat... WITHIN A DAY! The half century of Roe isn't a historical tradition, but a 111 year old gun permit statute is not as historically rooted as a 14 year old Supreme

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33:27

The Supreme Court Has A Little Chatterbox

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/06/22

Starting to notice a pattern? The January 6 Committee is very interested in speaking with Ginni Thomas following revelations that she had a correspondence with John Eastman about election shenanigans. But more interesting is the revelation that Eastman was telling his buddies that he had inside information about closed door Supreme Court meetings casting an even brighter spotlight on Thomas. It's still anyone's guess who leaked the Dobbs opinion, but it's worth noting that Occam's Razor is

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37:21

Law School Rankings Show Which Schools Offer Best Deal

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/06/15

Also, people don't want to go back to the office. At all. The latest edition of the ATL Top 50 Law Schools ranking is out and provides some interesting insights into legal education. As the ATL system privileges "outputs" by focusing on job placement and costs rather than incoming student GPAs and LSAT scores, the ranking gives prospective students a look at the best bang for their tuition buck and gives law schools a great way to game the system: be cheaper and get your grads jobs that will let

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28:43

Preparing For The Bar Exam — The Last Test You’ll...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/06/08

The bar exam is a daunting obstacle, but it doesn't have to be. Joe and Elie chat with Rich Douglas, COO of Themis, about the bar exam and how to conquer it. Rich also tells us about the Themis Law School Essentials program of free review materials for law school courses and we discuss the impact the GRE is going to have on law school admissions.

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27:56

The Podigal Son Returns: Elie Mystal Talks About The...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/06/01

"PODigal"... get it? Whatever. The original Thinking Like A Lawyer hosting team is back for a limited engagement! With the team depleted by holiday vacations, Joe is joined by Elie Mystal of The Nation to talk about the Supreme Court, touching on everything from Shinn -- deciding that "actual innocence isn't enough" when it comes to getting people off death row -- to the coming Bruen opinion that will stifle even the mildest of gun regulations across the country. We may even have a little to say

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29:17

Once Again The Epicenter Of All Drama

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/05/25

Yale. Again. Everything keeps coming back to New Haven. Conservatives are doxxing law students for saying they might not party with FedSoc anymore. Professors are whitewashing Alito opinions. Alums are attacking the press. Why can't this school chill out a little? Also a Biglaw firm needs some lessons in collegiality and Elon Musk is trying to make his own law firm.

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29:59

Texas Social Media Law DEMANDS That You Listen To...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/05/18

Does the new Texas social media law banning platforms from moderating content really require you to listen to this episode? Well, it's on Twitter so now you're compelled! Frustratingly, this reasoning is just as stupid as the Fifth Circuit's crayon-scratched opinion rubber stamping the statute. It's an opinion so bad that Justice Alito immediately swooped in to get the appeal rolling. Meanwhile, we also talk about the changing nature of in-house counsel and the growth of "legal operations" as the

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30:54

Supreme Court Unveils New Doctrine Of 'Stare 5-Voticus'

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/05/11

A leaked draft opinion informed the world that the far-right wing of the Supreme Court has broken from Chief Justice Roberts and intends to overrule Roe v. Wade outright based on... "we've got five votes now, so suck it." The gang discusses the opinion, the demise of stare decisis, the obsession with the leaker, and a law professor's problematic response to it all. Joe didn't even use the sound board this week, so you know it's serious. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists,

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33:19

Guess What Happened After We Recorded This Podcast?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/05/04

If you're tuning in today to hear our thoughts on the leaked Dobbs opinion and what that means for the future of both reproductive rights and the entire superstructure of the 14th Amendment going forward... well, you'll have to wait a week. Putting together a quality show takes time and that means we recorded this before that revelation. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a lot to cover! We have a breakdown of the latest Am Law 100 ranking of law firms, recaps of the "interesting" lawyering both in

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32:22

A Wild Week Of Law News

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2022/04/27

That was an exhausting week for legal happenings! Marjorie Taylor Greene flummoxed a poor judge during a hearing into her ability to satisfy the 14th Amendment's proscription against seditionists in office. Justice Kagan had just about enough of Neil Gorsuch and let us all know. Alex Jones took his defamation woes to Bankruptcy Court -- after transferring millions among different legal entities, of course. The Biden administration set its sights on undermining Miranda rights, Johnny Depp has a

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