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PODCAST

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Legal Talk Network

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law"s Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

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All Episodes

30:13

Alienating Our Affections

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2026/01/21

Supreme Court hacking and the end of a Biglaw era.------ The Biglaw world continues to watch single-tier partnerships slip away with Sullivan & Cromwell joining the income partner trend. Will the industry have any single-tier firms left by the end of the year? Also former Senator and current Hogan Lovells lawyer Kyrsten Sinema tagged with an alienation of affection tort from her former bodyguard's soon-to-be ex-wife. Come for the bad soap opera plot, stay for the MDMA-inspired psychedelic trip

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36:42

Minnesota Becoming A Constitutional Law Issue-Spotter

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2026/01/14

And Judge Ho's auditioning for MAGA favor takes a disgusting turn.------ With polls showing more Americans now favor abolishing ICE than keeping it, a lot of people will be disappointed to learn that the law is set up to make it almost impossible to hold anyone accountable for killing Renee Good. From sovereign immunity, to the Federal Officer Removal Statute, to the decline of Bivens, to qualified immunity, the whole system is arrayed to shield federal agents from legal redress. Speaking of the

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35:00

2026 Prediction Time!

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2026/01/07

Welcome to another dumpster fire of a year.----- We begin the year by peering into our crystal balls and issuing some predictions for 2026. Who will be fired? What's going to happen with law schools? Is a big change on the horizon for Biglaw? Our predictions will inevitably be wrong, but we'll offer them with a lot of confidence -- just like AI would. Also a whole lot of sports talk for a law podcast.

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40:46

A Look Back At The 2025 Dumpster Fire

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/12/31

Three trends dominated this year's coverage.----- We've made it to the end of the year! And what do we have to show for it as a profession? Our most elite law firms signed deals rather than stand up for themselves in the face of illegal Trump bullying efforts. Others quietly tried to erase their history to avoid the administration's ire. But some firms did fight back and achieved consistent success in court, while the dealmakers got heckled and derided by young lawyers. And, as anyone who has

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33:01

Closing Out The Year With Mergers And Attacks On The...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/12/24

Ho ho ho...gan Lovells merging.----- A critical analysis of the best variety of Coca-Cola product gives way to a conversation about law this week. Cadwalader ends its tumultuous year -- involving a Trump administration capitulation and a series of defections -- with a big quasi-transatlantic merger announcement with cross-Pond Hogan Lovells. Christmas came early -- to the extent anyone thinks of U.S. News law school rankings as "Christmas" -- with a prediction about the new law school pecking

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36:02

At Least The Robots In The Coming War Against Humans...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/12/17

If you want 2025 in a nutshell, it doesn't get much better than a blundering Secretary of Defense bragging that the Pentagon bought an expensive, bespoke AI bot and it immediately started calling out the Trump administration for committing war crimes. As the legal industry ventures into a hallucinatory AI frontier, it's worth remembering that sometimes the bots outperform the human lawyers. At the Supreme Court, Justice Sotomayor tries to convince her colleagues not to blow up the federal government

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33:14

This Is Why We Have Bar Exams

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/12/10

And the DOJ continues to be a hot mess.----- Kim Kardashian is trying to enter the legal profession without a law school education. The bar exam is a deeply flawed and largely unnecessary test, but the best case for having some kind of licensing exam is to make sure anyone taking an alternative path to a law license meets the minimum requirements for a lawyer. Meanwhile, the Trump administration continues to oscillate between bluster and blunder. Lindsey Halligan's doomed reign as quasi U.S

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35:17

A Bad Week For Trump's Fake U.S. Attorneys

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/12/03

And a shorter summer associate program.----- While most of us celebrated Thanksgiving, some of Trump's phony U.S. Attorneys were the real turkeys. First, a conservative leaning panel of the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the million dollar sanctions against Donald Trump and the parking garage lawyer he claims to have running the District of New Jersey. Then his Eastern District cosplaying prosecutor managed to lose not one, but two of the high profile revenge cases she brought. In other news, a major

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33:57

Bonus Season Begins In Earnest

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/11/26

Bonuses and botched prosecutions.----- Bonus season is underway, and Biglaw firms are lining up to reward associates for a year's worth of effort. The market scale -- unless some firm breaks rank and crashes the party -- tracks last year, which can be a bit anticlimactic, but with the economy possibly resting on the precipice of recession, this was probably all we could hope for. Also, we discuss Lindsey Halligan's epic fail in the James Comey case -- and we recorded this before the judge tossed

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31:38

Maybe The Legal Industry Has Just Lost All Sense Of...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/11/19

But seriously, what would be a good legal dominatrix name?------ Biglaw recruiting director out after racist rant goes public. A squabble between lawyers and their former firm presents important lessons on document management, but we spend most of the time wondering about the best legally themed dominatrix names. And we talk about Paul Weiss getting heckled at the New York Bar Foundation awards gala, providing one more embarrassing story to a rough year.

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31:28

If The DOJ Fails Another Time, They Win A Free Sandwich

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/11/12

And Kirkland tries a little tenderness. FedSoc does not.----- The news that Kirkland had to teach its lawyers how to stop being mean to the private equity industry is incredibly funny. We're not saying Kirkland is getting a bad rap here, but when did corporate clients become such fragile snowflakes? The Federalist Society's annual meeting brought together the leading minds of the Trump legal movement to call for a "war" to impeach the federal judges -- many of them longtime conservatives

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39:30

A Riot By Any Other Name...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/11/05

DOJ punishing lawyers, the future of the billable hour, and dark times for public interest work.----- We talk about the DOJ lawyers suspended by the White House for calling January 6 a riot in a sentencing memo. and the conversation veers down a rabbit hole about the proper role of pardons. For years, the billable hour seemed like the cockroach of law firm management, but after surviving numerous brushes with death, AI might finally force firms to look into alternative fee structures. And if

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38:27

Dispatches From The Collapse Of The Rule Of Law

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/29

And a Biglaw firm seeks help while an in-house attorney blows up her career.----- Catching up with the slice of the conservative legal movement who have stared into the moral abyss of the Trump administration and recoiled in horror. The Society for the Rule of Law held its annual summit and while many attendees voiced clear-eyed opposition, some continued to grapple with the cognitive dissonance in recognizing that Trump might be the natural and logical consequence of their own long championed

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32:20

No, Your Honor, I Didn't Call You That, I Was Talking...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/22

Also frivolous lawsuits and the insidiousness of dishonest analysis.----- Appeals court decides that some things are best left unsaid. And among those things are calling your judge the c-word. Just so we're clear, even though this was over Zoom, we're not talking about "cat." After trying to bully Michigan Law Review through litigation, the anti-DEI publicity hounds at FASORP have dropped the case. And with Trump inching closer to declaring martial law in America's cities, right-leaning legal

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38:08

On Campus Hiring Is Broken, And This Isn't Helping

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/15

Just in time for the AI slop to take over.----- Some law firms are handing out recruiting entertainment budgets to law students. While we don't fault law students some sweet walking around money, placing that power in the hands of students highlights the breakdown in the law school recruiting process and a real risk of baking more bias into hiring. Why has Kirkland memory holes its incoming partner class? The decision to opt out of its traditional announcement message seems like a move to shield

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35:19

Is This The Beginning Of The End For The Bar Exam?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/08

One can only hope.----- For a long time, the bar exam seemed like the nasty habit that the legal profession just couldn't quit. But there's finally some progress on that front, with Utah unveiling a new alternative pathway to licensure that values experience and the skills that an actual practitioner needs. We also check in on Cadwalader, where the firm brings on a new co-manager while taking some serious blows in the lateral market. Finally, the Supreme Court is back in session, so we look back

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30:20

All The Cool Kids Are Passing The Bar, All The Cooley...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/01

Biglaw capitulators face new challenge and James Comey gets indicted.----- Perennially embattled Cooley Law School once again called out by the ABA over sagging bar passage rates. The school has been out of compliance with ABA standards since 2020, and now finds itself on probation with its accreditor. The last time something like this happened, Cooley sued the ABA into relenting. History is a flat circle. After learning that Paul Weiss and Kirkland were providing free legal services to the

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31:18

Nothin' Says Lovin' Like A Benchslap

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/09/24

Law firm fires lawyer over Kirk comments and law school announces new scholarships.----- Perkins Coie cut ties with an attorney over Charlie Kirk comments on social media. The remarks were measured and reasonable, but the firm is still fighting the Trump administration in court and -- seemingly -- does not want any distractions or mere appearance of bias. But is that a worthy excuse? A Pillsbury partner received a benchslapping over what the judge considered unchecked entitlement. A Biglaw

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30:20

A Tale Of Two Supreme Court Book Tours

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/09/17

Compare and contrast as ACB and Sotomayor ride (media) circuit.----- Amy Coney Barrett and Sonia Sotomayor are both hitting the talk shows and it's highlighting how awkward the nation's relationship with the Supreme Court really is. Barrett went on Fox and accurately stated that the Constitution prohibits Trump running for a third term. Then the host offered a "wink wink" prompt and she started backpedaling. Meanwhile, Sotomayor went on Colbert and bent over backward to give her conservative

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36:30

The Fundamental Dishonesty Of The Supreme Court

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/09/10

Law school is more expensive than it used to be... but barely more expensive!----- Federal judges have had to deal with more and more threats from conservatives whipped into up by the Trump administration rhetoric blasting judges blocking illegal executive orders, only to be unceremoniously overruled by the Supreme Court. Last week, multiple judges called out the Republican justices for issuing unexplained opinions refusing to challenge -- indeed, passively encouraging -- Trump's attacks. So much

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444 results

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