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PODCAST

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact? Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts,

business management

All Episodes

14:44

Career Decisions Round 2 with Janelle Lopez

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/05/14

In today's segment, Kelli welcomes back Janelle Lopez, discussing her recent career decision to take a second-in-command role at Coursera over the top Chief People Officer position elsewhere. She gives us an honest look into her decision-making, her networking efforts (75 meetings!), and how to assess a company for fit.HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--SPONSOR:Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever

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48:16

Balancing Humanity and Numbers: A Michelle Weaver,...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/05/09

In this episode, Nolan and Kelli chat humanity in leadership with Michelle Weaver, CFO at Twitch (now part of Amazon). Michelle Weaver has 25 years experience including Hired (with Kelli), StitchFix, Axiom, Gap, Inc. and EA.Michelle emphasises the importance of a human-first leadership approach and that growth and learning can come from the projects you work on, not just promotions. The team all agree that building a strong relationship with the CFO builds a strong business foundation and knowing

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12:16

Do Non-Competes Harm Tech & AI Progress?

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/05/07

In today’s segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss the recent FTC ruling to ban non-compete agreements nationwide in the US, the broader implications of the ruling for employers and employees, and the future of AI and tech post-ban.HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal,

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50:27

Getting to the Bottom of Skill Shortages, Burnout &...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/05/03

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan are joined by Kristy McCann Flynn, a seasoned HR professional with 25 years of experience, who shares her journey from working in traditional HR roles to founding SkillCycle, a company aimed at revolutionizing talent development and performance management.The lively debate covers the evolving role of HR, why HR software purchasing power might be changing, why HR practitioners are doing it wrong if the 50% of their time is spent hearing staff

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14:19

Politics in the Workplace is Just Distracting

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/05/02

In today's segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss Google firing employees who barricaded themselves in the CEO of Google Cloud Thomas Kurian's office for nine hours, to protest Google providing cloud computing services to the Israeli Ministry of Defense. Google CEO swiftly released a 'No Politics in the Workplace' message. The discussion explores the broader implications of protesting in the workplace, raises questions about protests and explores alternative ways to voice dissent without disruption.HR

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51:15

The Architect of the Paypal Mafia: Peterson Conway

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/04/26

This week Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with Peterson Conway, headhunter, investor, and advisor who shares insights from his epic career working closely with Silicon Valley greats like Peter Thiel, Kevin Hartz, Keith Rabois, and Joe Lonsdale. Conway has assembled talent for the founding/early teams of Xoom, Palantir, Founders Fund, and 8VCStrap in for some crazy stories. Conway's journey highlights the significance of curiosity, optimism, and unconventional hiring practices in Silicon

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13:20

Shopify's Zero Sum Mastery Program

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/04/23

In this segment , Nolan and Kelli discuss new information about Shopify's Mastery Program. Employees are assigned a mastery score, and if their score does not increase, they do not receive a raise. They cover the implications of this new approach, comparing it to previous systems used by other companies which also relied on ratings and algorithms to determine merit increases, and discuss the concept of creating a zero-sum game in the workplace. While not exactly new, internal competition is front

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46:43

Leadership Development: Can We Keep Up With AI?: A...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/04/18

In this episode, Nolan and Kelli discuss the audacious quest to change the HR market with Adam Weber, Chief Evangelist of 15Five.The team discuss the new reality of strategic HR business outcomes and the importance of developing and nurturing high-performance cultures and building great leaders, with the critical necessity of upskilling leadership development fast to adapt to new trends such as the addition of AI which will change the face of how we know HR today.Adam also advocates for having

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16:11

No Makeup, No Offer?

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/04/16

HR Heretics bestie Colleen McCreary joins Kelli Dragovich for today’s segment to discuss a recent viral post about a VP People candidate who was denied a job because she didn’t wear makeup. Colleen and Kelli discuss the expectations and norms about appearance in the workplace and the nuances of providing helpful feedback to candidates.—HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Subscribe at hrheretics.substack.com—SPONSOR: This episode is brought

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50:02

Lean Mindset, Business Impact and the New Era of HR:...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/04/11

In this episode, Nolan and Kelli discuss “happiness police” overkill with Jeff Diana, former Chief People Officer of Calendly and Atlassian.They talk about the importance of being clear on who you are as a business to avoid massive swings and over-rotations in current HR programs. Jeff believes it’s driving shareholder value that creates employment and that HR pros need to think more like investors and shareholders with focus on business impact rather than focusing on employee satisfaction

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14:19

Pedigree is Overrated. McKinsey is Paying Employees...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/04/09

Kelli and Nolan discuss the news out of McKinsey this past week: generous packages for employees to opt out of their workforce. Is this a sign that there are no more golden tickets? Kelli and Nolan cover what this move says not only about McKinsey but about pedigreed qualifications more broadly. They also identify the key skillsets for this economy and the single most important thing you can do to make yourself recession-proof.HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.SPONSOR:Attio is the next

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44:48

The State of Startups in 2023 and 2024: A...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/04/04

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli chat all things “data from Carta” with Peter Walker, Head of Insights and Data Storytelling at Carta.They discuss Carta’s comprehensive report on startup compensation trends in H2 of 2023 influencing the flow of “dry powder” and the alarming increase in startup shutdowns. Peter proves VC’s will have less leeway in 2024 to throw good money after bad forecasting an even tougher year ahead.The team also discuss honesty in HR around equity structures,

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13:25

Remote vs. In-Person

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/04/02

Kelli and Nolan tackle the ongoing discussion around remote versus in-person work environments. They talk about the tradeoffs based on where you’re at in your career, the importance of questioning work environment structures, and encouraging listeners to consider what work environment aligns best with their current life phase.HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.coSPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique

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49:39

From MIT to HR Leader: A Conversation with Richard...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/03/28

In this episode, Richard Ni joins Nolan and Kelli to discuss diving head first into a leadership role at Scale AI, a Series E AI startup that supplies data for AI models last valued at $7.3B.From software engineer turned Head of People, Richard talks about his experience heading into a role with zero experience but with an aptitude for people where he needed to be honest with himself about his limitations and how this became pivotal in his learning. He also talks about the importance of building

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17:37

How to Be Layoff-Proof

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/03/26

In this segment, Nolan and Kelli talk about how to be recession-proof and share tactical advice on network-building for a resilient career.HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. SPONSOR: Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join OpenAI, Replicate, ElevenLabs and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan:

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57:34

Building Legendary Teams: Trust, Transition, and...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/03/21

In this episode Nolan and Kelli investigate the “recruiting is like art and science” analogy with the Chief People Officer at Pendo, JR Rettig. JR digs into the decisions that led her to the CPO seat, working closely with Kelli. JR also covers the needs for businesses to budget for leaving C-Suite leaders and succession planning, the advantages of a hybrid internal and external recruiting method for execs, and how to maintain a high bar in talent acquisition.HR Heretics is a podcast from

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17:12

The Promotion Problem

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/03/19

This segment is all about getting promoted while playing the game of corporate politics, maintaining great relationships, and executing well in your role. In the second half, Kelli and Nolan discuss whether you can get promoted too fast.Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear it - and tell them to subscribe: hrheretics.substack.com--SPONSOR: This episode is brought to you by AttioAttio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup

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53:38

The Freedom to Fail and Dispassionate Assessment with...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/03/14

In this episode, Nolan and Kelli host A.J. Thomas of X, the moonshot factory from Alphabet. A.J for a discussion about failure, innovation, and embracing adversity. They also discuss the importance of scenario planning and asking all the questions upfront as a baseline for business optimization.While at X, A.J. embraces the notion that professional breakthrough requires personal breakthrough and her perspective on the relentless pursuit of truth, dispassionate assessment, and the power of curiosity

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13:54

We Don't Talk About Board Dynamics Enough

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/03/12

This segment delves into the intricacies of board member dynamics, specifically focusing on the removal of board members. Highlighted by the situation involving Michael Moritz's removal from Klarna's board, the discussion covers the complexities and nuances of board construction, including the distinction between preferred and independent board members, contract terms, and the impact of diversity.We need to demystify board operations — how they work, voting dynamics, and what they do! Open call for

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16:05

Emergency Segment: Chamath Wants to Abolish HR?

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/03/08

Do companies need HR? Kelli and Nolan discuss a recent episode of All In (the #1 Business podcast in the world) which championed a utopian vision of dismantling HR inside companies, a conversation ignited by Sequoia’s Shaun Maguire exposing Google’s promotion policies. Kelli and Nolan discuss how we even got to this point of frustration, what’s worth decentralizing, and what would fall apart without HR. What do you think?Forward this to any HR Pro who needs to hear some real talk - and tell them to

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