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PODCAST

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact? Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts,

business management

All Episodes

24:40

The Brutal Truth About Running Layoffs

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/11/13

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli tackle a question on navigating layoffs, revealing hard-won lessons from cutting deep, treating people humanely, and avoiding rookie RIF mistakes.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies

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16:13

Ex-Amazon Director's Viral Post Exposes Tech's Broken...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/11/11

On today’s HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli dissect a viral LinkedIn post from an ex-Amazon director, exploring how inflated tech worker expectations clash with today’s brutal job market realities.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like

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29:54

Snowflake CPO Arnnon Geshuri on Their AI Framework...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/11/06

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan interview Arnnon Geshuri, Chief People Officer at Snowflake and 8-year Tesla veteran, about building HR’s strategic authority through data analytics, his automate-augment-human AI framework, and why he recruits economists and data scientists alongside traditional HR professionals.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to

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22:26

Molly Graham on Founder Depression and Executive Team...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/11/04

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan have a candid discussion with Silicon Valley operator Molly Graham on founder depression, imposter syndrome, executive team dynamics, and building business-first people operations at scaling companies.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate

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32:48

Get Inside the Mind of your Team’s Best Interviewer,...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/30

Today on HR Heretics, we’re excited to cross post a conversation from Metaview’s 10x Recruiting Podcast featuring Viet Nguyen, Head of Global Recuiting Operations of Vercel, on using AI to analyze top interviewers’ transcripts, extracting their unconscious patterns and building tools that scale interviewing excellence.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save

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35:23

"3000 Applicants in Minutes": Recruiting Now with...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/28

This episode with Jason James from Tezi briefly vanished from Spotify. Don’t ask us why. But it’s too good to not share again. So here’s Jason unpacking the future of recruiting. Please enjoy.Jason James doesn’t sugarcoat it: recruiting coordinators and sourcers won’t exist in 5 years. In this episode, James (Co-founder and COO of Tezi) sits down with Kelli and Nolan to discuss how to screen 3000 applicants in minutes, why most great resumes just rode the elevator up at hypergrowth companies, and

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32:53

Navigating the AI Trough At Your Org with Siadhal...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/23

In this latest installment of AI Corner, Kelli, Nolan and Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos discuss the “Trough of Disillusionment” in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows. Watch as Siadhal demonstrates Metaview’s AI sourcing, showcasing its intuitive, agent-based approach that moves beyond traditional Boolean methods.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out:

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16:14

Rethink Your Bonus Program

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/21

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan analyze why traditional bonus programs fail at early-stage companies, advocating for flexible sprint incentives and spot bonuses over rigid annual structures that create organizational debt.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team

en

35:19

"3000 Applicants in Minutes": Recruiting Now with...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/16

Jason James doesn’t sugarcoat it: recruiting coordinators and sourcers won’t exist in 5 years. In this episode, James (Co-founder and COO of Tezi) sits down with Kelli and Nolan to discuss how to screen 3000 applicants in minutes, why most great resumes just rode the elevator up at hypergrowth companies, and why AI bias audits set a higher standard than humans ever could.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get

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18:02

No Private DMs

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/14

On today’s HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan debate radical workplace transparency: eliminating private Slack messages. They explore tensions between cultural openness, practical communication needs, and effective use of asynchronous tools.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI

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23:27

Fractional Work's Dirty Secret: How to Do a Full-Time...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/09

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Sally Thornton, CEO and Founder of Forshay who offers a candid examination of fractional executive work, exploring trust barriers, adverse selection problems, pricing models, and why consulting acumen matters more than traditional executive experience.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform

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24:08

Building Culture-First Companies: Insights from...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/07

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Culture Amp CEO Didier Elzinga, revealing data-driven insights on building culture-first companies, balancing psychological safety with accountability, and prioritizing growth as engagement’s foundation.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out:

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28:11

Building Elite Teams at Coinbase with L.J. Brock

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/10/02

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Coinbase Chief People Officer LJ Brock reveals how the company’s mission-first philosophy, refusal to negotiate salaries, and rigorous talent density standards challenge conventional HR orthodoxy.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans

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29:25

The H-1B Shakeup: Immigration Program Redesign and...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/30

On today’s HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid analysis of H1B visa policy disruptions impacting tech hiring, then recap their Confluent People Team offsite with Colleen McCreary, featuring contrarian HR perspectives on compensation equity, organizational beliefs, and fostering intellectual disagreement.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps,

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32:30

A CPO's First 90 Days

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/25

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid, practical advice for Chief People Officers navigating their critical first 90 days, featuring real-world insights on building stakeholder trust, executing quick wins, and establishing strategic organizational influence.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent

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33:15

$100K H-1B Fee? Analyzing Trump’s Policy with Nicole...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/23

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan talks to Immigration attorney Nicole Gunara (Manifest Law) who analyzes the new $100,000 H-1B policy that sparked rapid industry adaptation across Silicon Valley, breaking down how this strategic shift creates different advantages for big tech versus startups while driving companies to explore innovative alternative visa pathways.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven

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44:23

Nextdoor’s CPO on “The Great AI Divide”: Tinkerers vs...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/18

Returning guest Bryan Power (Head of People, Nextdoor) talk about AI workplace adoption, contrasting executives who avoid AI as time-consuming with his dedicated approach of treating AI as teammates, scheduling one-on-ones with custom GPTs, and transforming workflows.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams

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22:51

The Death of Traditional VC: Why Platform Shifts...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/16

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Katelin Holloway, Founding Partner of Seven Seven Six. Katelin argues HR professionals possess essential early-stage investing skills, and advocates their transition from support roles to decision-making positions through founder relationship-building strategies.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from

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20:53

Applying Design Thinking to People Operations with...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/11

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Iain Roberts, Airbnb's Global Head of Employee Experience and discuss his transition from IDEO designer to Airbnb's CHRO, exploring how design thinking principles reshape organizational structure, collaborative leadership, and workplace policies in opposition to traditional HR practices.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR

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34:03

The AI Expectations Crash with Metaview CEO Siadhal...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/09

In this latest installment of AI Corner, Kelli, Nolan and CEO Metaview Siadhal Magos discuss the "Trough of Disillusionment" in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just

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