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PODCAST

Change Signal

Michael Bungay Stanier

If you’re leading change in organizations, this will be your favourite podcast. Change is harder than ever. Transformation is more complex, unpredictable and overwhelming than it’s ever been. Change Signal cuts through the noise to find the good stuff that works. Michael Bungay Stanier, author of The Coaching Habit and organizational transformation student for thirty years, talks to the best thinkers, senior leaders, and experienced practitioners in the world of change, to find what works, what

business management

All Episodes

30:06

Does Insubordination Help or Hinder Change? Todd Kashdan

Change Signal ·

2025/10/15

Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Todd Kashdan: Are you cooperating too much for change to succeed? What personal costs are you willing to pay for principled rebellion? Why do people hide their real beliefs just to fit in? My friend Todd Kashdan, psychology professor and author of The Art of Insubordination, brings some unexpected wisdom about what it really takes to lead transformational change in organizations. Todd

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29:54

The Hidden Rituals of Change: Michael Norton

Change Signal ·

2025/10/08

Here are three provocative questions that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Michael Norton:Can we ever escape ritual? Why is ambiguous loss harder to process than clear grief? How can we honour the past while creating a new identity? Most change leaders assume ritual is all incense and corporate retreats. Harvard Business School professor Michael Norton sees it differently. His research shows that the most powerful organizational rituals aren’t the big, top-down

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31:23

The Four Change Friction Traps: Loran Nordgren

Change Signal ·

2025/10/01

Here are three big questions that Loran Nordgren asks in the question for modern change mastery:Are you accidentally creating resistance by making your ideas sound too revolutionary? What if the anxieties you're avoiding are exactly what you need to address? Why does pushing harder on change often make things worse? Loran Nordgren, a behavioural theory professor at Northwestern's Kellogg School, flips change management on its head. Instead of focusing on making ideas more

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34:28

Power Literacy for Change Leaders: Larissa Conte

Change Signal ·

2025/09/24

Here’s what Larissa Conte asks us about modern change mastery:Is “power” something that’s learned and usable? What might happen if we focused on possibilities rather than problems? How can you expand your ability to handle more success “wattage”? My guest Larissa Conte calls herself a "power alchemist" — which will either intrigue you or make you roll your eyes. Either way, stick with this conversation. Larissa argues that "power literacy" is the skeleton key that unlocks

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16:48

How to 3x Training Results: Chris Taylor

Change Signal ·

2025/09/19

Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Chris Taylor: Are your high-stakes moments sabotaging skill development? Why practice once when you could daily? What if home practice beats workplace training? My friend Chris Taylor, founder of Actionable, has spent eighteen years obsessing over what Bob Sutton calls the "knowing-doing gap." Why do people get inspired in training rooms but then struggle to change their actual behaviour? Chris

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20:13

Why Curiosity Drives Change Capacity: Scott D. Anthony

Change Signal ·

2025/09/17

Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Scott D. Anthony: What's systematically killing curiosity in your organization? Can you hold your team in that sweet spot between comfort and chaos? And Are your excuses actually avoiding the real work of transformation? Scott D. Anthony, Clinical Professor of Business Administration at Tuck and innovation strategist, challenges how we think about change leadership in large organizations. Most

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20:29

How to Plan for Resistance: Lisa Reynolds

Change Signal ·

2025/09/10

Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Lisa Reynolds:Are you actually enabling resistance? When did you last grieve something? How many individual changes are you actually managing? Lisa Reynolds leads change management at Christus Health, where her small team punches way above their weight across a massive healthcare system. She's learned that change work is fundamentally about relationships, not processes. Her approach flips

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27:09

Training's Biggest Blind Spot Revealed: Julie Dirksen

Change Signal ·

2025/09/03

Julie Dirksen’s three key insights about modern change mastery: most training fails because it ignores immediate relevance; organizational change temporarily destroys people's competence and professional identity; corporate learning only addresses logic while ignoring the emotional brain that actually drives decisions. Julie Dirksen joins me to dissect why most corporate training feels like "high school, but worse." She's spent years figuring out how to design learning that

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24:14

Your Brain on Change: Prof Dan Cable

Change Signal ·

2025/08/27

Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Dan Cable: Are you leading with fear-based management?; How much "freedom within the frame" are you offering? and How do you use dopamine to best fuel your change efforts? Dan Cable, Professor of Organizational Behaviour at London Business School, argues that as the world moves faster, leaders can no longer afford to use fear as the primary tool to drive change. The conversation explores how

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21:59

Three Paths Through Failure. A CEO, a counsellor, a...

Change Signal ·

2025/08/20

A CEO, a counsellor, and a consultant share a key question each about change: How do you really make things safe for people? Could powerlessness actually, ironically, be a superpower? What’s the difference between guardrails and control layers? What if everything you know about leading change is backwards? Gary Ridge turned WD-40 into a global phenomenon by doing something that sounds like career suicide — actively encouraging people to share their mistakes. Ian Cron watched

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23:18

Should You Lie About Change? Michael Bungay Stanier...

Change Signal ·

2025/08/15

The three key insights from this episode: change is orienteering through unknown territory, not following a GPS route; organizations are addicted to efficiency when they desperately need experimentation; and the best experiments are designed to fail safely, not succeed predictably.I'm diving solo into why small experiments might be the only sane approach to change in these chaotic times. After 30 years in this game, I've learned that "change management" is mostly a delusion — you can't manage your

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25:57

Are Your Meetings Killing Change? Keith McCandless

Change Signal ·

2025/08/13

Keith McCandless’s three key insights: meetings fail because we use five invisible patterns that systematically exclude people; anyone can facilitate breakthrough conversations using simple rules, no charisma required; and boosting both autonomy and responsibility simultaneously creates wildly productive teams. Most change leaders know meetings suck, but Keith McCandless, co-author of The Surprising Power of Liberating Structures, reveals exactly why. We're drowning in unconscious patterns —

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29:56

Why Stories Matter More: Jennifer Garvey Berger

Change Signal ·

2025/08/06

Jennifer Garvey Berger’s three key insights: connectivity matters more than individual talent in complex systems; small experiments beat both over-planning and paralysis; and stories are legitimate measures of change before numbers shift. If you've ever had a change plan that hasn't quite gone according to plan (and honestly, who hasn't?), this conversation with Jennifer Garvey Berger will shift how you think about leading transformation. She's spent three decades figuring out what actually works

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29:56

Can You Change Yesterday's People? Mark Surman, Mozilla

Change Signal ·

2025/07/30

Mark Surman’s three key insights: spending years wrestling with whether your foundational values still make sense; accepting that legacy teams can't build the future, so you need separate structures; and mastering the ability to think across different timescales simultaneously. Mark Surman, Mozilla's president, shares the messy reality of transforming a 25-year-old organization for the AI era. He's replaced 60% of staff, created entirely separate companies, and spent five years questioning whether

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26:22

Is Your Organization Change Allergic? Anne Gotte

Change Signal ·

2025/07/23

Three key insights from Anne Gotte: change management is as outdated as "personnel" organizations must diagnose their change allergies before attempting transformation; and leaders need to embrace clumsy imperfection while providing clear direction.Anne Gotte is SVP Global Talent & Organization Effectiveness at Mondelēz and she brings refreshing honesty to the messy reality of organizational transformation. She's worked at Bumble, Ecolab, and General Mills, collecting scars and wisdom along the

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36:59

Start with the Gnarliest Problem: Rodney Evans

Change Signal ·

2025/07/16

Three key insights: Change work isn't transformative anymore—it's operational; your organization does everything the same dysfunctional way; and everyone secretly benefits from broken patterns.My guest, Rodney Evans from TheReady, has abandoned talking about "adaptability" because people's eyes glaze over. Instead, she starts every conversation with leaders by asking about their gnarliest cross-functional problem that can't be solved. Why does this work? Because everyone has experienced that

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34:01

The Imperfection Advantage: Charles Conn

Change Signal ·

2025/07/09

Could it be that your strategic planning is actually paralyzing you, your biggest critics hold the keys to breakthrough innovation, and the military metaphors you're using to lead change are fundamentally broken?Charles Conn, former McKinsey partner, former Head of Rhodes House, and current chair of Patagonia's board, brings a provocative challenge to how we think about transformation. He argues that our obsession with perfect planning is the enemy of progress in uncertain times. Instead of

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26:21

How Many Times Should You Fight Your Boss? Molly Graham

Change Signal ·

2025/07/02

Discover why emotional "monsters" sabotage change projects, learn the "fight it three times" rule for managing upwards, and understand why grief is the most overlooked emotion in transformation work.Molly Graham has scaled teams at Google and Meta, and now runs Glue Club for startup operators. She brings hard-won wisdom about the messy human side of change that most leaders pretend doesn't exist. The conversation digs into why competing visions create "zebra-giraffe" disasters and how to craft

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10:19

Finding The Real Constraint: Dan Heath

Change Signal ·

2025/06/25

Why does nobody care about your billion-dollar vision, what can Chick-fil-A teach you about bottlenecks, and how does fixing one problem always create another?Dan Heath drops some astute and provocative truths about change leadership that'll make you rethink and reset your approach to change. First up: your carefully crafted corporate vision probably sucks because it's all about hitting numbers instead of serving real people. Heath's blunt takedown of “corporate visions” is just a warm-up. He

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10:51

The Easiest Change Strategy: Roy Baumeister

Change Signal ·

2025/06/18

Most change programs get the sequence backwards; uncertainty secretly sabotages willpower; and using your non-dominant hand might triple your success rate.My guest, Roy Baumeister, is one of psychology's rock stars, and he's spent decades studying what actually works when it comes to willpower and behaviour change. Turns out, we've (mostly) been doing it wrong. Here's the thing: everyone assumes you need to change minds before you change behaviours. Roy's research suggests the opposite. Get

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