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PODCAST

Disorder

Jason Pack & Evergreen Podcasts

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder. The Disorder podcast, in partnership

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All Episodes

49:03

Ep 135. Are Drones replacing Air Forces; and is NATO...

Disorder ·

2025/08/12

As Ukraine and Russia master new forms of drone warfare, are NATO and Europe being left behind? Is the West willfully clinging to older 20th century ways of equipping and preparing for war? In this episode, Arthur Snell is joined by Matthew Savill, the Director of Military Sciences at RUSI. They focus on developments and trends in contemporary conflict and investigate new trends in the use of force in the mid-21st Century. The duo discuss Ukraine's rapid innovation in drone technology, the

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46:21

Ep 134. Why Spying is vital in our age of Disorder

Disorder ·

2025/08/05

For as long as there’s been wars and diplomacy, there have been spies. Some call it the world’s second oldest profession. But from their peak during the Cold War until now have the West’s spying capabilities declined? And how is spying and subterfuge being used in the Ukraine War? As part of our partnership with the New Books Network, Jason is joined this week by former MI-6 agent, Charles Beaumont. Charles is the pseudonym author of the bestselling spy thriller, ‘A Spy at War.’ He and Jason

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61:22

Ep 133. Could Epstein Bring Down Trump?

Disorder ·

2025/07/29

It’s that time of the month (ha), as we take listener questions! Jason and Jane discuss why the Epstein scandal WILL genuinely hurt Trump with his conspiracy loving base, the complexities of the UK’s independent nuclear deterrent, the multilateralism of any new Iran nuclear deal, the implications of blowback from Trump's conspiratorial scaremongering, and if the Russians have the ability to escalate the ongoing conflict in Ukraine or if they are ‘maxed out’. Plus we handle eloquent verbiage

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56:21

Ep 132. Why Backgammon Can Help us Order the Disorder

Disorder ·

2025/07/24

We’ve heard about Putin bluffing. Abraham Lincoln was an accomplished poker player and Churchill dabbled at chess. But to our mind it is Backgammon that best reflects both politics and life decisions. It’s a game of skill, luck, reversals and socializing. So could world leaders use Backgammon to help them develop their empathy, strategic thinking, resilience, and make better decisions?In this conversation, Jason Pack is joined by Marc Olsen – fellow Backgammon Grandmaster, former professional

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43:16

Ep 131. Have You Got What It Takes to Become British?

Disorder ·

2025/07/22

Each time someone wants to become a British Citizen, they have to pass the ‘Life In The UK’ Test. The aspiring Britisher (such as Jason) might hope that this test would be comprised of a series of questions that would highlight Britain’s role as a global orderer, help prospective citizens understand the intricacies of British queuing culture and provide insights into how to pay council tax, or get on the ballot for Wimbledon tickets… but in reality: the test is about as Disorderly as the world is

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51:02

Ep 130. Is International Diplomacy Dead? With...

Disorder ·

2025/07/15

The UN is demonstrably powerless in Gaza; unable to facilitate elections in Libya; and blocked by Russia from doing anything meaningful on major issues, like Ukraine, Climate Change, Tarriffs, or the Arctic. Is International Diplomacy Dead? Where is the UN in pushing back against Trump? Is there any way that countries can finally put their differences aside on major divisive issues -- like Ukraine and Gaza -- but work together on other more unifying ones – like kleptocracy and climate change – and

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71:46

Ep 129. What Does British Foreign Policy Actually Mean?

Disorder ·

2025/07/08

In his roll as UK Foreign Secretary, David Lammy has often talked of his concept of progressive realism, but what does that mean? And how has that impacted British foreign policy over the past 12 months?In this episode of Disorder, Alex Hall Hall and Arthur Snell delve into the complexities of British diplomacy over the past year – offering a grade point for each area of British foreign policy. They assess the UK's relationships with the US and EU, the implications of NATO and defense

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47:13

Ep 128. The Decline of American Leadership

Disorder ·

2025/07/01

In Alex’s final episode as an official cohost, she and Jason reflect on just how disordered the world has become since the pod started in 2023. They lament the loss of sane American global leadership during that time, the challenges faced by centrist politicians, and unpack the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. They express the need for moral courage and moral clarity in politics. As they Order the Disorder – they talk about the need to use your unique voice to shine a light on what can be done to make

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49:08

Ep 127. How To Navigate Our Disordered World

Disorder ·

2025/06/26

In Alex’s penultimate episode as an official Disorder cohost, she and Jason discuss her decision to step back from co-hosting due to the overwhelming chaos in the world and the emotional toll it takes. Plus: they unpack the struggle to maintain empathy in a disordered world, the rising fear of deportation, cancellation, political violence, censorship, enemies lists, and their implications for democracy. And – as they Order the Disorder – they look at the importance of maintaining professional

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36:01

Ep 126. 12 Day War Restarts? Can Trump Impose Peace...

Disorder ·

2025/06/24

As Lenin apparently never said, ‘There Are Decades Where Nothing Happens and Weeks Where Decades Happen’. We are clearly living through the latter. Arthur and Jason attempt to untangle the latest: from the Iranian attack on the US airbase in Qatar to Trump’s declaration of forever peace to end what he is cleverly calling the 12 Day War.Arthur and Jason rally in violent unity for Mega Ordering -- whether you advocated for Obama’s ‘Iran Deal’ or supported Trump’s tearing it to shreds, whether you

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56:25

Ep 125. As wars rage, can Trump be seen as a peacemaker?

Disorder ·

2025/06/19

Trump promised to end the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, yet here we are – months later – and seemingly no real progress has been made towards peace in either regions. In the meantime, Trump and co were also seeking deals across the Middle East, including a new nuclear deal with Iran. How did that go? It ended in full scale War! Is the Art of the Deal dead? Is Trump a fool? Or is he more of a master negotiator than is immediately apparent? Did he actually manipulate the Iranians in a way that Biden never

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60:37

Ep 124. How Does the Iran Israel War End? My Kingdom...

Disorder ·

2025/06/17

Over the weekend, waves of missiles were launched back and forth by Iran and Israel – killing civilians, damaging oil refineries, and causing tremendous humanitarian disaster. Iran willy nilly lobbed bombs at population centres while the Israelis targeted key bits of infrastructure. In either case, the international community stood by – seemingly unable to stop the Disorder. So what can be done?In this episode, Jason Pack and Jane Kinninmont recap the weekend’s events – exploring what role the

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30:43

Ep 123. Israel’s attack on Iran - The Wars of...

Disorder ·

2025/06/13

Overnight, Israel attacked several of Iran’s nuclear sites and killed the Islamic Republic’s top military leaders, as well as assassinating the Supreme Leader’s key advisor on nuclear issues, Ali Shamkhani. This comes two days before the US and Iran were supposed to resume direct talks on finding a diplomatic agreement to curb Iran’s nuclear programme, which Shamkhani had publicly supported. Jane Kinninmont and Jason discuss why has war come now, in the middle of Trump and Witkoff’s

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41:54

Ep 122. Can NATO Survive? With Sten Rynning

Disorder ·

2025/06/10

At different engagements throughout the month, NATO allies will meet in Brussels and the Hague to discuss Ukraine and defense spending – with Trump’s team putting pressure on the Europeans to up their spending to 5% of GDP. But with the Americans wavering on the alliance as a whole, and these unrealistic spending targets: Can NATO survive?To find out, Arthur Snell speaks with Sten Rynning, professor and director of the Danish Institute for Advanced Study, University of Southern Denmark, and

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59:57

Ep 121. Could Project Russia Destroy the West? with...

Disorder ·

2025/06/03

From Gaddafi’s Green Book, to Mao’s Little Red Book, to Hitler’s Mein Kampf, ideological autocrats have frequently spelled out in plain sight their perverse world views and long-term plans to confront their adversaries and upend global order. Rather than engaging in deep study of the thoughts of Qadhafi, Saddam, the Ayatollahs, or Mao, our leaders have traditionally not taken the statements of our ideological adversaries seriously enough. From Obama, to Biden, and even Trump – leaders in the West

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47:03

Ep 120. Could Nationalism Save Germany? With Will Wilkes

Disorder ·

2025/05/27

With Friedrich Merz officially at the helm, Germany is entering a new era. But with the AfD breathing down his neck – the country is actually more internally Disordered than outsiders may realise. We ask: could the answer be a new – inclusive – brand of nationalism?To find out, Jane Kinninmont is joined by Will Wilkes: Bloomberg News correspondent in Germany and co-author of ‘Broken Republik: The Inside Story of Germany's Descent into Crisis’. The pair discuss the current state of Germany,

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58:12

Ep 119. The Danger of Complete Anarchy with Robert...

Disorder ·

2025/05/20

Disorder is a show where we look for historical parallels to better understand our current age of Global Enduring Disorder… It is also a show where once and a while we stumble across novel and yet explanatory parallels like the idea that the problems of Weimar Germany have gone global and sometimes we even get to interview world famous scholars who have come up with these novel parallels and have brilliantly extracted useful kernels about the interconnectivity of different crises, especially as

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88:38

Ep 118. Ordering the Global Financial Disorder

Disorder ·

2025/05/15

To best Order the Disorder, we love hosting live shows with our partners at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) and showcasing the great range of talent that they have on staff. Jane and Jason were joined for a live recording on May 14 by TOM KEATINGE, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRE FOR FINANCE AND SECURITY AT RUSI.The trio started off tackling Sanctions: the role and use of Western Sanctions before Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022; how the use of sanctions has changed

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62:43

Ep 117. Ukraine’s Resilience in the Face of War

Disorder ·

2025/05/13

FIRSTLY, PLS COME TO OUR LIVE SHOW. NOW OPEN TO ALL DISORDER LISTENERS Wednesday MAY 14, 17:30 AT RUSI. You can sign up here: https://my.rusi.org/events/disorder-podcast-live-ordering-the-global-financial-disorder.html NOW TO THIS EPISODE: In Trump’s first 100 days he has disordered almost everything: from freedom of speech on campus to global trade to affairs of war and peace. And yet, despite his threats to abandon Ukraine, and actual denials of provision of certain forms of intelligence

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54:34

Ep116. Do Russia's Domestic Politics make it a...

Disorder ·

2025/05/06

FIRSTLY, PLS JOIN THE SUBSTACK TO COME TO OUR LIVE SHOW NOW OPEN TO ALL DISORDER LISTENERS Wednesday MAY 14, 17:30 AT RUSI. You can sign up here: https://my.rusi.org/events/disorder-podcast-live-ordering-the-global-financial-disorder.html NOW TO THIS EPISODE: As Russia seeks a maximalist deal to secure its gains in Ukraine via negotiations with the Trump Administration, Putin is still trying to spread even more Disorder globally. Are the Russians, in fact, the top table Disorderer

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