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PODCAST

Disorder

Jason Pack & Evergreen Podcasts

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder. The Disorder podcast, in partnership

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All Episodes

65:53

Ep 162. Venezuelization and What Disorder Will 2026...

Disorder ·

2026/01/13

To kick off the year, Disorder held our final live podcast recording at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), as part of our one-year partnership with the think tank. Hear Jason Pack in discussion with Disorder co-host Jane Kinninmont, RUSI Associate Fellow Arthur Snell, and Jonathan Eyal, Associate Director at RUSI. They discussed the rather disordering implications of Trump’s actions in Venezuela, whether it might embolden China and Russia to behave the same way in their ‘spheres of

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59:43

Ep 161. What does warfare look like in smartphone...

Disorder ·

2026/01/06

Smartphones have revolutionised warfare, and we are still learning exactly the implications of this. The extent of our full spectrum dependence on Wi-Fi and the internet is profound. Military organisations routinely rely on civilian infrastructure to operate digitally. Now, with AI accelerating the pace of change in tactics, strategy, and targets even further, what does that mean for war? And how civilians participate in it? And what nodes of connectivity can become enemy targets?To find out,

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46:36

Ep 160. What Disorder can we expect in 2026? With KeenOn

Disorder ·

2025/12/30

For this special partnership episode with Andrew Keen from KeenOn, Jason and Andrew discuss what Disorder we can expect in 2026. Jason crowns Mark Carney as 2025’s Mega Orderer-in-Chief and fears that even from the grave Epstein will be 2026’s Disorderer-in-Chief. The show ends with our looking ahead to the New Year with the Hebrew song, ‘Ba Shana HaBa’ah’ song by Yoav Oved. You can check out more of his operatic cantorial singing here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OolsTq5ZNNw To join our

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66:46

Ep 159. Wishing Our Listeners A Mega Ordering Christmas!

Disorder ·

2025/12/23

In this festive edition of Disorder, our hosts Jason Pack, Jane Kinninmont and Mark Lobel reflect on a Disorderly 2025, and preview what could be an even more Disorderly 2026. They gather around the Yuletide fire and shoot the breeze, then discuss personal Christmas traditions, the biggest moments of Disorder throughout the year, while also pointing to some moments of hope that emerged. As they Ordered the Disorder, they highlight the need for leadership and Jason returns to his desire for a

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61:08

Ep 158. Rising Islamic militancy in Bangladesh?

Disorder ·

2025/12/16

Are we witnessing rising Islamic militancy in Bangladesh? Or could it become a model for other developing countries?A nationwide celebration is underway. It’s Victory Day for Bangladesh’s 176 million people. Fifty-four years ago today -- December 16th, 1971 -- the former state of East Pakistan became the modern, independent nation of Bangladesh. But few people are pleased with the trajectory Bangladesh is currently on. What’s been happening this past 15 months has shaken this country to its

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41:09

Ep 157. Dalia Dassa Kaye: Will Iran and the US always...

Disorder ·

2025/12/09

Will the US and Iran always be at odds? What is the history of their feud? Weren’t the countries allies under the Shah? And today, what’s the chance that negotiations will resume after the 12 Day War earlier this year? And why has the Iran file always been one of the most toxic and divisive issues in Washington foreign policy circles?To find out the answers to these questions and more, Jane - who has analysed and tracked the Iran file for two decades - quizzes an expert, author and friend, Dalia

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55:42

Ep 156. Philip Coggan--The Economic Consequences of...

Disorder ·

2025/12/02

With the long-awaited UK budget finally revealed (in a leaked form a few hours early), will this finally restore a semblance of financial Order to the UK? And with Trump’s haphazard tariffs ongoing and constantly mutating, what does it all mean for the global economic order?To find out, Jason is joined by Philip Coggan, award winning journalist and author of The Economic Consequences of Mr Trump: What the Trade War Means For the World. This ep is brought to you in partnership with the New Books

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53:45

Ep 155. Can Canada become the world’s mega orderers?...

Disorder ·

2025/11/25

What aboot Canada? Is Carney still popular? Has he pulled a Starmer of coming in with big fanfare and then flopping? Fortunately not! And with Mark Carney recently narrowly passing a budget, can Canada now play the role of the world’s mega orderers? And with the Canada-U.S. relationship on the rocks and trade talks stalled, what does that mean for Canada’s position in the world?To find out, Jason is joined by our returning champion, Marci Surkes. She is Chief Strategy Officer and Managing Director

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40:30

Ep 154. Is it in Israel’s interest to recognize...

Disorder ·

2025/11/20

In this bonus episode, Jane and Jason are joined by former Israeli Ambassador to South Africa, Ilan Baruch, to present a unique perspective on a possible route to peace between Israel and Palestine. Amb. Baruch is a part of the ‘Policy Working Group’, which advocates for ‘leveling the playing field’ between Israelis and Palestinians. We discuss the need for ‘equality’ among parties in negotiations, the role of the UK and international community in peace efforts, and what recognition of

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58:46

Ep 153. Is wealth inequality the greatest global...

Disorder ·

2025/11/18

The US president has said he plans to sue the BBC, even after getting an apology for a misleading Panorama edit of his 6 January speech. But how could he do that national broadcaster of America’s greatest ally? And will the BBC cave?To find out, Jason is joined again by returning cohost, Mark Lobel. They discuss the BBC’s next moves and whether Trump’s lawsuit actually has any merit. Plus: they dissect a tumultuous week for Keir Starmer, Rachel Reeve’s budgetary reversals, Wes Streeting’s

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54:43

Ep 152. How do we still get people to believe in...

Disorder ·

2025/11/13

For a special crossover episode with the Democracy Works podcast, Jenna Spinelle talks with Jason. They discuss the state of democracy around the world and why making America's government more like a European country might not be the solution to our current polarization that some democracy reformers hope it will be. We also contrast the current state of play in the US and UK and speculate as to why Keir Starmer has been such a disappointment and how the UK is not able to provide a model of

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52:47

Ep151. Jason loses his city: the disordering pitfalls...

Disorder ·

2025/11/11

Central Park West Apartments for all! Freeze the Rent! Free Palestine! Jason goes on a screed that is sure to bemuse, offend, and enlighten. He showcases the myriad ways in which Mamdani’s leftwing populism is not so dissimilar to Trump’s disordering offerings.In the wake of Zohran Mamdani’s victory in the New York Mayoral Election, Democrats face a choice. How do they talk about the issues he won on – cost of living, housing, transport – but from a centrist perspective? Or do they even try and

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64:36

Ep 150. Why can’t the US justice system hold the...

Disorder ·

2025/11/04

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ In institutional design, the US justice system is more independent than its European counterparts. Even though the US President selects his Attorney General, a corrupt President can be dealt with not only via impeachment, but in Principal through independent special counsels pursing justice while avoiding potential

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52:12

Ep 149. Is an alliance with Israel geostrategically...

Disorder ·

2025/10/28

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content (like this week’s special bonus about the UN’s and Jason’s Birthday) and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ In this listener questions episode, Jason and Jane discuss a range of issues from Israel-Gaza, to football hooliganism, to Kaliningrad (the Russian exclave), to the possibility of mega ordering institutions. They start by analysing the strategic

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58:01

Ep 148. Is there a path to lasting peace in Palestine...

Disorder ·

2025/10/21

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ As Trump parades across the Middle East collecting adulation for his ‘eternal peace’ deal, Jane and Jason break down the realities and explain that what was achieved was merely a hostage release, prisoner swap, and ceasefire. With Phase 2 looming and infighting already starting in Gaza, they look at the role of the various

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60:38

Ep 147. From Gaza ceasefire and Hostage release and...

Disorder ·

2025/10/14

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ To discuss from a Palestinian perspective the fallout of October 7th, two years of the Gaza War, and the suffering of the Palestinians from occupation, displacement, cantonization, and bombardments, Jason is joined by Sam Bahour, a Palestinian-American entrepreneur based in Ramallah. There is much said in this episode that

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56:13

Ep 146. Commemorating October 7th Part 1: Phil...

Disorder ·

2025/10/07

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10This timely episode was recorded before the horrors of the Manchester Yom Kippur Synagogue terrorist attack of October 2nd and the potential optimism of the Trump deal to end the Gaza War which is currently in limbo. This episode deals extensively with issues of antisemitism, humanitarian suffering in

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34:16

Ep 145. How has Trump changed the UN?

Disorder ·

2025/10/02

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10When Trump stormed into UNGA last week, complained about escalators and tele prompters, and swung back out… the UN was faced with some questions. How do we navigate a world through Trump’s America? And what does it mean for the very future of the UN? To find out, and reflect on UNGA as a whole, Jane is

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50:47

Ep 144. Is Free Speech Dead in America (plus...

Disorder ·

2025/09/30

We here at Disorder are thrilled to announce a subscription Club with lots of perks for our fans. Given these dire times and our inability to break even we really need your support. To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10Even a small amount from you on the lowest tier will go along way for us, so thank you so much for your generosity. Now to today’s

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66:21

Ep 143. Can The Politics Guys Help us Order the...

Disorder ·

2025/09/25

For a special bonus episode, we give you Jason’s conversation with Michael Baranowski, of The Politics Guys podcast. They discuss: Jason’s concept of global enduring disorder, the implications of this disorder for global politics, the role of the US, and the need for new governance structures to address transnational challenges. Plus: the rise of neopopulism across the globe, its implications for democracy, and the challenges it poses to the current global order. And as they Order the Disorder, they

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