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PODCAST

Messy Social Work

Messy Social Work

Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher.Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

science social sciences

All Episodes

92:30

Rich and Tim speak to Prof. Harry Ferguson: Feeling,...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/09/12

In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Professor Harry Ferguson—one of the most influential thinkers in contemporary social work. Together, they explore the evolution of the profession, the emotional and embodied nature of frontline practice, and what we’ve learned from decades of child death enquiries. Harry reflects on the importance of relationships, the complexity of risk, and why social work must be both intellectually rigorous and deeply human. A must-listen for anyone interested i...

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55:01

Rich and Tim speak with parent activist Lee Crouch...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/09/05

Rich and Tim speak to Lee Crouch, a parent activist, about losing his children, the long road to recovery, and eventual reunification. Together, they explore how parents, social workers, and foster carers can collaborate more compassionately. Rich and Tim also reflect on their own experiences of shame — how it’s shaped their work and personal lives — and what it means for practice and healing. Connect with Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-crouch-257ab2248/ Check out the hope...

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41:07

Rich and Tim; 'Headlines with Mithran' and personal...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/29

Social Work England fee rise and increase in fitness to practise case numbers https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/24/social-work-england-presses-ahead-with-33-fee-rise-despite-huge-practitioner-opposition/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/25/social-work-england-fee-hike-unjustifiable-and-based-on-tokenistic-consultation-warn-unison-and-basw/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/29/psw-networks-sound-alarm-over-social-work-england-fee-rise/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/08...

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46:46

Rich and Tim on how writing sharpens thinking,...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/22

In this conversation, Rich and Tim explore how writing isn’t just for blogs or books—it’s a powerful tool for social workers to think more clearly, practice more effectively, and create new opportunities. Drawing on their own experiences, they discuss how the simple act of putting words on a page sharpens reflection, deepens analysis, and helps communicate ideas with confidence. Whether you’re looking to improve your day-to-day practice, strengthen your professional voice, o...

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53:36

Rich and Tim debate: help individuals or change the...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/15

In this episode of Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim debate (and disagree about): are social workers failing families by ignoring the system? It’s just the two of us this time, diving into one of the biggest tensions in the profession. Should we focus our energy on helping individual families build safety and stability? Or is that just papering over the cracks of a system that keeps producing harm? We’ve got strong opinions — and we don’t always agree Relational Activism: https://www.relational...

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65:46

Rich and Tim chat with Dr. Lorna Stabler about what...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/08

Dr Lorna Stabler's research can be found here. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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28:11

BONUS: Chapter 1 of Messy Social Work read by Rich...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/01

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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67:26

Rich and Tim: 'headlines with Mithran' & Cordie...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/07/25

Connect with Cordie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordie-gwilym/ Mithran's CC articles: A guide to the reforms: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/10/the-dfes-child-protection-and-family-support-reforms-explained/An interview with Eileen Munro, in which she voiced significant criticisms of the changes: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/03/munro-childrens-social-care-reforms-very-likely-to-fail-due-to-scale-of-change-and-lack-of-testing/A response to the Munro piece from a...

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60:56

Rich and Tim speak to Rasheed Pendry OBE (Director at...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/07/18

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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49:23

Rich and Tim discuss the 5 reasons why chronologies...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/07/11

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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49:55

Rich and Tim speak to Clarissa Stevens (Development...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/07/04

Clarissa Stevens: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarissa-s-4b7438132/ Peer Power Youth: https://www.peerpower.org.uk/ Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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79:32

Rich and Tim interview Kevin Campbell on Family...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/06/27

In this conversation, Kevin Campbell discusses the profound impact of family separation policies, particularly in the context of child welfare and legal action against the Trump administration. He emphasizes the importance of family connections, innovative approaches in child protection, and the role of social workers in supporting youth. The discussion also covers the significance of understanding child development, building support networks, and the future of kinship care in community invo...

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67:30

Rich and Tim introduce 'Headlines' with CC Editor...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/06/23

Mithran's articles: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/4bn-a-year-more-available-for-adult-social-care-by-2028-29-in-spending-review/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/spending-review-childrens-services-cash-boost-means-labour-delivering-on-care-review-macalister/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/17/casey-dfe-must-urgently-investigate-fall-in-number-of-child-sexual-abuse-cases-recorded-by-councils/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/19/commission...

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65:19

Rich and Tim interview Prof Jill Derrick on the...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/06/12

We’re joined by the brilliant Professor Jill Derrick from the University of California, Berkeley, for a compelling and thought-provoking conversation on the complexities of child protection practice. From the competing tensions social workers navigate to the moral distress they often face, Jill offers deep insight into the impossible decisions that define the field. We examine the moral implications behind these choices and the challenging task of evaluating different forms of alternative car...

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46:35

Rich and Tim speak to Senior Social Worker, Duane...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/06/06

In this episode with speak with Duane Phillips, Senior Social Worker at Coventry City Council. We talk about: Duane's experience growing up mixed heritage working with children, families and communityDuane's experience working as a family support worker and running groups for menBeing a male social workerAnd much more...We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did. Connect with Duane: https://www.linkedin.com/in/duane-phillips-0656b7180/?originalSubdomain=uk Relational Ac...

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84:01

Rich and Tim speak to Terri-Anne (Project Worker and...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/05/29

This week, we have our first-ever return guest, Terri Anne, who shares the important work of the Care Leavers Association and delves into her exploration of the emotional rollercoaster of retrieving and reading her care files. Tim interviews care leaver Liana Karim and Jo about their National Voice Project, and some stark findings from a massive study involving care-experienced adults. Liana reads out a spectacular poem that Tim first heard at the inaugural One Voice Summit in London la...

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57:08

What 10 years in child protection taught me about...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/05/23

In this episode, Rich and Tim and live and in person in Rich's living - they unpack 10 lessons from Rich's experience in child protection, with Tim surprising Rich with a Paxman style interview, quizzing and questioning his central ideas. Do they withstand the scrutiny, tune in to find out. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https...

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65:25

Professor Clive Diaz on psychoanalytical ideas in...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/05/16

In this episode, we speak to Professor Clive Diaz, a music producer who has also worked as a social worker, principal social worker, researcher, professor, and psychoanalytical psychotherapist. We discuss the relevance of psychoanalytical ideas in modern social work, such as transference, countertransference, the unconscious, and much more. Can these ideas really help us as social workers, or should we avoid overanalysing and offer practical help? We also ask Clive the top 10 quic...

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66:23

George Fielding BEM on living with cerebral palsy and...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/05/09

This week, we speak with George Fielding, BEM, a disability rights activist and social care leader. He was the first child in his area to go to a mainstream school in a wheelchair. Since then, he’s worked with charities like Whizz-Kidz, mentored over 100 disabled people, and received an MBE. George also set up two care organisations that focus on dignity, choice, and helping people live the lives they want. He’s recently appeared on news channels to discuss current disability issues and chang...

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39:26

Rich and Tim take on the top three myths in child...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/05/02

In this episode of Messy Social Work, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine explore the complexities of child protection social work. They discuss the myths surrounding the profession, the importance of relationships, and the challenges social workers face in balancing their roles. Rich shares insights from his book, addressing misconceptions about the ability of social workers to keep children safe and happy, and emphasizes the significance of understanding the process over the outcome in socia...

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91 results

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