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PODCAST

Messy Social Work

Messy Social Work

Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher.Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

science social sciences

All Episodes

63:55

Rich and Tim speak to Rhian Taylor on the tension...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/10/31

In this episode, we explore the tension between the fast-paced, task-driven nature of social work and the deeper need for presence, reflection, and meaning. Rhian Taylor shares insights from her recent blog on why it’s so hard for practitioners to stop—and how doing so can radically improve our wellbeing and the quality of our practice. We talk about: The systemic pressures that reward constant “doing”The emotional and professional cost of never stoppingHow rest, reflection, and inner a...

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66:00

Rich and Tim speak to Nicki Pettitt, Consultant...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/10/25

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Context Counts: Improving the analysis of socio-economic context and intersectionality in Local Child Safeguarding Practice Reviews: https://www.techne.ac.uk/research-and-education/departments-and-schools/law-and-criminology/research/our-projects-and-research-impact/context-counts-improving-the-analysis-of-socio-economic-context-and-intersectionality-in-local-child-safeguarding-practice-reviews/ Rich's BASW Child Protect...

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44:11

Rich and Tim probe Community Care Editor, Mithran for...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/10/17

Josh MacAlister has said he’d like children to have a choice of where and with whom they live: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/02/children-in-care-should-have-choice-of-where-and-with-whom-they-live-says-macalister/ Applications to register children’s homes are rocketing, such that Ofsted is having to prioritise applications, leaving others having to wait up to 18 months. https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/13/some-childrens-homes-face-waits-of-up-to-18-months-to-register-un...

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64:01

Rich and Tim speak to Dr Paul Shuttleworth on what...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/10/09

In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim speak with Dr Paul Shuttleworth about his new book Listening to Children about Kinship Care: Child Welfare and Permanence. Drawing on powerful research and direct testimony from children and young people, Paul shares what they say really matters when professionals make decisions about kinship care, permanence, and support. We explore: Why listening to children is essential in kinship care planningThe emotional and relational compl...

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79:18

Rich and Tim speak to Dr Lorna Stabler about lived...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/10/03

In this episode, we explore why lived experience has become such a dominant force in social work, and ask: what are we missing when we treat it as unquestionable truth? Dr Stabler helps us think critically about how stories are used, who gets to tell them, and what happens when experience becomes currency. This is a conversation about ethics, representation, and the uncomfortable edges of practice. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Prote...

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48:59

Rich and Tim reflect on their personal failures,...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/09/26

In this episode, Rich and Tim: How to Succeed at Failing, we reflect on the times we’ve got it wrong — professionally and personally — and explore why failure isn’t just inevitable, but essential. From missteps to lessons learned, we talk about how embracing failure can lead to growth, insight, and even unexpected success. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-p...

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75:05

Rich and Tim interview Prof Rick Barth on the top...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/09/19

In this thoughtful and research-informed conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Professor Rick Barth about his influential article, “Ten Common Child Welfare Misconceptions.” The episode explores how widely held beliefs about child protection and foster care often diverge from evidence and practice realities. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich De...

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92:30

Rich and Tim speak to Prof. Harry Ferguson: Feeling,...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/09/12

In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Professor Harry Ferguson—one of the most influential thinkers in contemporary social work. Together, they explore the evolution of the profession, the emotional and embodied nature of frontline practice, and what we’ve learned from decades of child death enquiries. Harry reflects on the importance of relationships, the complexity of risk, and why social work must be both intellectually rigorous and deeply human. A must-listen for anyone interested i...

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55:01

Rich and Tim speak with parent activist Lee Crouch...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/09/05

Rich and Tim speak to Lee Crouch, a parent activist, about losing his children, the long road to recovery, and eventual reunification. Together, they explore how parents, social workers, and foster carers can collaborate more compassionately. Rich and Tim also reflect on their own experiences of shame — how it’s shaped their work and personal lives — and what it means for practice and healing. Connect with Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-crouch-257ab2248/ Check out the hope...

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41:07

Rich and Tim; 'Headlines with Mithran' and personal...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/29

Social Work England fee rise and increase in fitness to practise case numbers https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/24/social-work-england-presses-ahead-with-33-fee-rise-despite-huge-practitioner-opposition/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/25/social-work-england-fee-hike-unjustifiable-and-based-on-tokenistic-consultation-warn-unison-and-basw/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/29/psw-networks-sound-alarm-over-social-work-england-fee-rise/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/08...

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46:46

Rich and Tim on how writing sharpens thinking,...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/22

In this conversation, Rich and Tim explore how writing isn’t just for blogs or books—it’s a powerful tool for social workers to think more clearly, practice more effectively, and create new opportunities. Drawing on their own experiences, they discuss how the simple act of putting words on a page sharpens reflection, deepens analysis, and helps communicate ideas with confidence. Whether you’re looking to improve your day-to-day practice, strengthen your professional voice, o...

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53:36

Rich and Tim debate: help individuals or change the...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/15

In this episode of Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim debate (and disagree about): are social workers failing families by ignoring the system? It’s just the two of us this time, diving into one of the biggest tensions in the profession. Should we focus our energy on helping individual families build safety and stability? Or is that just papering over the cracks of a system that keeps producing harm? We’ve got strong opinions — and we don’t always agree Relational Activism: https://www.relational...

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65:46

Rich and Tim chat with Dr. Lorna Stabler about what...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/08

Dr Lorna Stabler's research can be found here. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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28:11

BONUS: Chapter 1 of Messy Social Work read by Rich...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/08/01

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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67:26

Rich and Tim: 'headlines with Mithran' & Cordie...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/07/25

Connect with Cordie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordie-gwilym/ Mithran's CC articles: A guide to the reforms: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/10/the-dfes-child-protection-and-family-support-reforms-explained/An interview with Eileen Munro, in which she voiced significant criticisms of the changes: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/03/munro-childrens-social-care-reforms-very-likely-to-fail-due-to-scale-of-change-and-lack-of-testing/A response to the Munro piece from a...

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60:56

Rich and Tim speak to Rasheed Pendry OBE (Director at...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/07/18

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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49:23

Rich and Tim discuss the 5 reasons why chronologies...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/07/11

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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49:55

Rich and Tim speak to Clarissa Stevens (Development...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/07/04

Clarissa Stevens: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarissa-s-4b7438132/ Peer Power Youth: https://www.peerpower.org.uk/ Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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79:32

Rich and Tim interview Kevin Campbell on Family...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/06/27

In this conversation, Kevin Campbell discusses the profound impact of family separation policies, particularly in the context of child welfare and legal action against the Trump administration. He emphasizes the importance of family connections, innovative approaches in child protection, and the role of social workers in supporting youth. The discussion also covers the significance of understanding child development, building support networks, and the future of kinship care in community invo...

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67:30

Rich and Tim introduce 'Headlines' with CC Editor...

Messy Social Work ·

2025/06/23

Mithran's articles: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/4bn-a-year-more-available-for-adult-social-care-by-2028-29-in-spending-review/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/spending-review-childrens-services-cash-boost-means-labour-delivering-on-care-review-macalister/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/17/casey-dfe-must-urgently-investigate-fall-in-number-of-child-sexual-abuse-cases-recorded-by-councils/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/19/commission...

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