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PODCAST

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact? Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts,

business management

All Episodes

31:01

Inside LinkedIn's First AI Agent, with Mark Lobosco

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/04

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with LinkedIn's VP of Talent Solutions Mark Lobosco to discuss their new "Hiring Assistant" - an agentic AI tool automating recruitment intake, sourcing, and messaging. Today, early adopters are saving 4+ hours per role, reviewing 62% fewer profiles, and seeing a 69% improvement in InMail acceptance rates. They also discuss how AI will affect recruiting roles, candidate requirements, and why LinkedIn profiles are about to get

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19:52

Building Relationships with Board Members

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/09/02

Dear Heretics is back! Kelli and Nolan explore strategic board engagement for people leaders, covering presentation frameworks, relationship building, and navigating the delicate balance between board influence and CEO loyalty.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of

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33:55

40 Hours, No Meetings, No Politics: Building a...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/08/26

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-owner & CTO of 37signals. He critiques DEI implementation and workplace wokeness, advocates political neutrality at work, and outlines his organizational philosophy emphasizing minimal management, creative constraints, and HR as leadership firewall.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at

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17:09

"I Live Off Intensity": Steve Cadigan on Jeff...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/08/21

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talked to Steve Cadigan, LinkedIn's first hired CHRO. Steve dissects LinkedIn's hypergrowth challenges, contrarian HR principles, and the fundamental shift from acquiring to developing talent internally.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to

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17:58

How AT&T's CEO Just Exposed the Engagement Survey Con...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/08/19

Kelli and Nolan critically examine employee engagement surveys, arguing they're performative exercises for disconnected executives rather than meaningful tools for understanding and improving workplace sentiment.In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Dave Margulius discussing Quizlet's remarkable 18-year journey from a bootstrapped startup founded with teenage co-founders to a globally successful education platform, sharing insights on building company culture, managing young

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37:59

Dave Margulius: "Starting a Company Without VC Money...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/08/14

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Dave Margulius discussing Quizlet's remarkable 18-year journey from a bootstrapped startup founded with teenage co-founders to a globally successful education platform, sharing insights on building company culture, managing young talent, transitioning from founder to board member, and maintaining mission-driven values while achieving sustainable growth.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor

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18:48

Exit Interviews Are a Waste of Time

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/08/12

Today on HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli critically examine the effectiveness and limitations of traditional exit interviews as organizational diagnostic tools, questioning their performative nature and strategic value.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful

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22:41

The Rise of the Elite Operator with Casey Woo

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/08/07

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to Casey Woo, founder of Operators Guild, and explore the evolution of elite business operators—generalist executives who transcend traditional titles to solve complex problems at high-growth companies, featuring insights on AI disruption, and community building.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from

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18:09

From Windsurf to DeepMind: How Acquisition Deals...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/08/05

Today on HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan analyze the controversial Windsurf acquisition prompted by Windsurf employee #2's explosive social media post about receiving only 1% equity payout despite Google's $2 billion deal, highlighting Silicon Valley's eroding compensation norms.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful

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24:14

Why DIY Executive Search Fails with Andy Price,...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/31

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan do a deep dive into executive recruiting mastery with VC Andy Price, covering why exec hires fail, back-channeling strategies, post-hire support, and building scalable leadership teams.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to

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30:38

The Astronomer Scandal

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/29

Nolan and Kelli dive deep into the viral Astronomer scandal where the CEO and Chief People Officer were exposed having an affair during a Coldplay concert kiss cam moment. They examine the hypocrisy of executive leadership, the responsibilities that come with high-profile roles, and how this incident damages trust in HR leadership across the industry.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR

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39:30

How ServiceNow Turned Talent Data Into Competitive...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/24

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Sarah Tilley, SVP of Global Talent at ServiceNow, to unpack how a $199B company is revolutionizing talent acquisition with AI. Sarah breaks down their two-speed transformation strategy—from optimizing basic recruiting processes to unlocking game-changing talent market intelligence that most companies can't even imagine yet.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at

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25:50

The Real HR Problem: Bitterness, Bad Leadership, and...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/22

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Ethena CPO Melanie Naranjo, challenging empathy-driven management, exposes toxic executive dynamics, and advocates for logic over emotion in workplace leadership.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets

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20:41

Testing Everything: How HashiCorp Rewrote the People...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/17

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan explore compensation testing, remote culture scaling, leadership transparency, and AI adoption challenges through the analytical lens of Christine Centa, HashiCorp's Chief People Officer.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to

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31:25

Unpacking the Windsurf-Google Deal with Carta's Peter...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/15

Emergency pod: Returning guest Peter Walker (Carta's Head of Insights) analyze the controversial Windsurf deal, where Google's acqui-hire left non-founder employees without equity payout. They unpack the deal, reference Character AI's precedent, and explore how AI-era deals increasingly prioritize top researchers over broader employee bases, fundamentally changing startup risk calculations*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire

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16:10

The 5 Layers of Business Literacy Every HR Leader...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/10

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan examine the persistent challenge of HR professionals becoming genuine business leaders. Jeff Diana Investor/Entrepreneur, and former CPO of Calendly, join in to dissect tactical strategies for developing business acumen, moving beyond traditional people operations to drive meaningful organizational impact through financial literacy and strategic thinking.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor

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13:39

Bolt Says They Killed HR, But the Work Doesn’t Go Away

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/08

Kelli and Nolan critically examine Bolt CEO and Founder Ryan Breslow's announcement that they eliminated their HR department in favor of "People Ops", questioning whether this rebranding actually improves efficiency or just represents clickbait without meaningful organizational change. They explore the tension between removing perceived bureaucratic middlemen and maintaining necessary workplace oversight.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and

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23:21

Equity Negotiation: The Ultimate Guide to Not Getting...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/03

A few weeks ago, we started bringing back essential Heretics 101 content. Today we're revealing insider secrets of equity negotiation that could save you millions. Colleen McCreary recommended this episode, and the stakes couldn't be higher.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock

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28:27

Why 50% of CEO-HR "Marriages" End in Divorce with...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/07/01

Today's episode examines friend of the pod/recurring guest Colleen McCreary's "CEO-VP of HR divorce rate" concept, sparked by a VC's call about his CEO's failed six-month relationship with a seasoned HR leader. Colleen, Kelli, and Nolan explore why traditional interviews miss critical compatibility issues, the tendency to let conflicts fester rather than address them early, and essential strategies for either salvaging these crucial partnerships or ending them professionally.*Email us your questions

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49:10

Zapier’s Bold Bet: Every New Hire Must Be...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/06/26

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli get a behind-the-scenes look at Zapier's AI strategy with CPO Brandon Sammut. He demos some seriously impressive AI tools his team built—interview prep agents, automated workflows, performance tracking—and explains why they require AI skills from every new hire at their 730-person company. Make sure you also watch the video version on Substack and YouTube for the demo done by Brandon on Zapier Agent use cases.*Email us your questions or topics for

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197 results

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