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PODCAST

Macro N Cheese

Steven D Grumbine

A podcast that critically examines the working-class struggle through the lens of MMT or Modern Monetary Theory. Host Steve Grumbine, founder of Real Progressives, provides incisive political commentary and showcases grassroots activism. Join us for a robust, unfiltered exploration of economic issues that impact the working class, as we challenge the status quo and prioritize collective well-being over profit. This is comfort food for the mind, fueling our fight for justice and equity!

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All Episodes

01:08:47

Focus on the Family with June Carbone

Macro N Cheese ·

2021/01/23

Recently our friend Bill Black introduced us to June Carbone. He suggested she could tell us how the job guarantee fits into cutting edge research on the family. June holds the Robina Chair in Law, Science and Technology at the University of Minnesota Law School and writes about the intersection of family, the economy, and politics.In this episode, June takes Steve through the evolution of the American family as it transitioned to meet the economic needs of modern society. She says what excites her

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59:09

Anatomy of a Job Guarantee with Fadhel Kaboub

Macro N Cheese ·

2021/01/16

What can we say about the job guarantee that hasn’t already been said? Quite a bit, actually, as you’ll see in this and upcoming episodes.This week Fadhel Kaboub is talking to a mellower Steve, fresh from the hospital and still on the mend from Covid19. Fadhel begins with the reality that capitalism is a brutal system that constantly leaves people behind. It’s driven by technological change, and as this develops, we require some workers with new skill sets, while others are rendered virtually

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47:37

The Global Scourge of Neoliberalism with Patricia Pino

Macro N Cheese ·

2021/01/09

Steve Grumbine has been in the hospital with Covid-19 complicated by pneumonia. We’re encouraged by his progress and expect to have him back in the saddle soon. Since he was unable to record a new interview this week, we’re reviving a 2017 conversation he had with Patricia Pino from the UK. Our listeners know her as co-host of the MMT Podcast, but this was recorded several months before that project was launched.It’s amusing to revisit the past, comparing ourselves then and now. In 2017 Steve was

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01:01:51

Beat Back Better: Organizing in 2021 with Emma Caterine

Macro N Cheese ·

2021/01/02

Happy New Year! Welcome to our first episode of 2021.Among ourselves, we on the Macro N Cheese team often debate (argue) whether it’s possible to achieve our economic and political goals under the present system. We’re as susceptible to discouragement and despair as anyone else. This is why we love a guest like Emma Caterine whose optimism is rooted in experience and realism.Emma’s message for 2021 is “organize!” To begin with, we must address the isolation that people are feeling while in the midst

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57:34

Flying with Sara Nelson

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/12/26

Happy 100th!To our supporters, both old and new,Thank you for making this podcast a success exceeding our expectations. For the story of Macro N Cheese and our 100th episode, please check out the “Extras” section on the episode web page. realprogressives.org/podcast_episode/episode-100-flying-with-sara-nelson * * * * *Sara Nelson is a labor leader with MMT bullets in her bandolier. She’s practical, wise, and filled with compassion for the workers she represents and those she doesn’t. She joins us

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52:37

A Modern Debt Jubilee with Steve Keen

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/12/19

Are you listening to Macro N Cheese on our website? If not, you’re missing the transcript and extra content that accompany each episode.This week we welcome Professor Steve Keen for his third visit to the podcast. He talks to us about the need for a debt jubilee, rising from the insanity of orthodox economics and the very real consequences attached to that paradigm.There's this belief which is promulgated by mainstream economics. If you read a text like Mankiw, for example, you'll find a statement

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53:46

Imminent Collapse with L. Randall Wray

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/12/12

This week, Randy Wray joins us for his fifth Macro N Cheese episode. As always, he brings loads of useful insights and factual information, both historical and of the moment.While cable news and Democratic social media are jubilant with the ouster of Donald Trump, we know it’s a hollow victory. There’s nothing to celebrate. Randy and Steve look at the sobering facts. We stand on the precipice of country-wide evictions and mortgage foreclosures. Many jobs and businesses are lost forever. The

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54:03

Solidarity with Joe Burns

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/12/05

You don’t have to be a Marxist to know the vital importance of labor. Workers hold the key to social change. They keep us fed, clothed, and provided for; they’re the only force with actual leverage over the ruling class. No wonder unions are such a threat.Joe Burns isn’t just a labor lawyer and negotiator, he’s a student of labor history. He joins us to talk about the past, present, and future of the movement. For the challenges faced today, it is instructional to look back. For example, the gig

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01:25:10

Treasury’s Gift To The Fed with Robert Hockett

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/11/28

When Steve Mnuchin announced a clawback of the CARES Act, the liberal media wasted no time before launching condemnations. Among our friends in the MMT community, wiser heads prevailed. Make no mistake, nobody denies Mnuchin is the Grinch who stole Christmas. But like a magic eye picture, if you change your focus slightly, a different image will form. This week, our friend, Robert Hockett, joins us to tell us why Mnuchin’s announcement can be seen as a gift in our stocking, not a lump of coal. On

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53:29

The Land Value Tax with Joshua Vincent and Rich Nymoen

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/11/21

Not all of our listeners are anti-capitalist but it’s safe to say that most of us object to the accumulation of massive wealth solely by virtue of inactive, unproductive ownership. Sitting on idle property is a particularly egregious way of accruing riches, often to the detriment of surrounding communities that are forced to tolerate eyesores in their midst for decades on end. Depreciation has been a windfall for the ruling elite.Our guests, Joshua Vincent and Rich Nymoen, are proponents of the land

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01:05:05

Political Sobriety with Rohan Grey

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/11/14

At Real Progressives, we get daily messages from people who are still recovering from Bernie’s trouncing in the primaries. They remain distraught, disillusioned, and discouraged - convinced that he was robbed.Last week Rohan Grey explained Rashida Tlaib and AOC’s Public Banking Act. This week we asked him to take off his MMT hat and talk to our wounded volunteers. To help them put the recent political past in perspective and move forward, they first must accept a sobering dose of reality. Rohan

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01:01:46

The Public Banking Act with Rohan Grey

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/11/07

On October 31st, Rohan Grey posted a 31-part Twitter thread about Rashida Tlaib’s and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez’s new Public Banking Act, which he helped craft. We immediately reached out and arranged for Steve to interview him, ending up with not one, but two episodes of Macro N Cheese. This week he answers our questions about the Public Banking Act. Next week he and Steve will venture into the swampland of politics. By the time the episode airs the election will truly - finally - be over. So, has

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01:06:21

Propaganda and the Vortex of Centrism with Esha...

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/10/31

Esha Krishnaswamy, host of the historic.ly podcast, joins Steve to talk about the frustrating political miasma of centrism. Centrism. So vapid and insubstantial, how does one grab ahold? It’s a wispy dandelion head (aptly named the capitulum) - one slight *poof* and it’s gone. But we’re not fooled. As soon as the left gets behind a popular policy or candidate, the center reveals itself to be a mighty, unstoppable force in the service of the ruling class. In today’s world, the US centrist home turf

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53:04

Crisis Management with Warren Mosler

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/10/24

This second part of Steve’s conversation with Warren Mosler was to be about the government response to the pandemic, but first Warren talks about disagreements with some in the MMT community. We here at Macro N Cheese believe in healthy debate and want to bring a range of viewpoints to our listeners.The federal job guarantee is one area in which Warren disagrees with certain prominent MMTers. He sees the JG as a transitional program to be used during downturns in the business cycle with the goal of

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01:08:19

The MMT Sequence with Warren Mosler

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/10/17

Talking to Warren Mosler reminds us just how far MMT has come since the days he traveled from conference to conference, peddling his intellectual wares. Well, they no longer laugh at Mosler Economics, AKA Modern Monetary Theory. It’s a well-known part of MMT history that Stephanie Kelton, fresh out of grad school, set out to disprove his assertions, point by point, and ended up making MMT her life’s work. Today, in Warren’s view, she’s arguably the most influential economist in the world, because

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58:17

Juxtapositions with Bill Mitchell

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/10/10

Bill Mitchell joins us this week to discuss a plethora of American misconceptions… perceived exceptionalism, obvious neoliberalism, and a dysfunctional electoral system, as we approach the culmination of perhaps the most absurd and disheartening presidential election in history.The interview covers the consequences of neoliberalism in Europe, the UK, Australia, and the US, both in the rightward march of political parties and the ticking clock of catastrophic climate change. They discuss the

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52:11

Debt Deflation and the Neofeudal Empire with Michael...

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/10/03

Some of us Macro N Cheesers first heard the term “rentier class” from Michael Hudson’s interviews and YouTube talks. In today’s episode, he and Steve discuss the idea of economic rent as a remnant of feudalism. Bankers have replaced the feudal lords as the parasites who extract most of the wealth from the economy. The financial, insurance and real estate (FIRE) sector comprise the contemporary kleptocracy. They have manipulated the system to such an extent, it is impossible to get an accurate

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56:35

A Just Transition Through Participatory Governance...

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/09/26

Our guest, Cindy Banyai, is exactly the kind of person we want representing us wherever policy is made. She has the life experience of a working woman raising three kids, runs her own consulting business, and has lived and traveled all over the world. Did we forget to mention she knows MMT and supports the Green New Deal, universal health care, and a federal jobs program to ensure a basic minimum wage, worker protections, and benefits?When Cindy happened upon Modern Monetary Theory, it made sense of

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58:46

2020 with Margaret Kimberley

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/09/19

We here at Macro N Cheese are immersed in the world of MMT, but that doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate people who aren’t yet on board. As long as they’re not pushing an austerity agenda, we welcome them. Today’s guest, Margaret Kimberley, of Black Agenda Report, is just such an ally. Her book, Prejudential: Black America and the Presidents, was published earlier this year.This interview takes place as one region of the US is ablaze in wildfires and the pandemic is no closer to being resolved

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00:13

Shadow Banking with Robert Hockett

Macro N Cheese ·

2020/09/12

Back in 2018, Steve invited Robert Hockett to come on to talk about shadow banking and explain its role in the 2008 financial crisis. We’re bringing back this interview because shadow banks are still around and people still have a hard time grasping exactly what they do. This is partly because many don’t understand what banks themselves actually do. The popular vision is that banks borrow and lend and that they make loans based on what they have in the vault; we MMTers know that they make loans

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