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PODCAST

The Messy City Podcast

Kevin Klinkenberg

Embracing change, uncertainty and local initiative for our cities and towns kevinklinkenberg.substack.com

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All Episodes

46:17

Building the Not-Quite Missing Middle

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/11/26

In the urbanism and planning world, we talk a lot about Missing Middle Housing. Rightfully so, since it’s a critical element that helps a community succeed and provide the total range of housing options. And, it’s historically what we used to build a LOT of, before the advent of zoning and modern development codes.Hal Shapiro of Real Property Group in Overland Park, KS, talks with us about his unique niche and take on working in this field. Hal started on the lending side of the equation, and

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63:47

How to Hack Your Life

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/11/05

Stop what you’re doing, and listen to this episode. Trust me, it’s worth it.I came across Joe Jimenez by way of Coach Carson, who has interviewed him twice. Joe lives in Kalispell, Montana, and now owns a business called Switchback Suites. Joe and I discuss his interest in the FIRE movement, (FIRE = Financial Independence, Retire Early) and how he eventually translated that into his own world. A key piece has been using house hacking to get into real estate investing, and to as he says, “play life

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43:12

Turning love of your town into a development crusade

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/10/29

Before this episode, I knew nothing about Mineral Wells, TX. Now, i’m interested to visit. Mineral Wells is a small, historic resort town west of Fort Worth. It’s the sister city of Hot Springs, Arkansas. And our guest’s family has been on the forefront to save it from recent decline.For me, this, what Macy Nix Alexander relates to me is how people who truly love their place can be the change that helps turn its fortunes around. This is a remarkable tale that can be relatable to all manner of

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64:59

Getting to Affordable Infill Development

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/10/22

Eric Kronberg, of Kronberg Urbanists + Architects, is a wealth of knowledge for people wanting to truly understand the realities of new construction in cities. First off, it’s Kronberg with a long o, not as I initially pronounced it. Apologies to Eric.Eric and I talk about his work in missing middle housing, working in development in Atlanta, and the opportunities and perils of doing infill new housing. TLDR: it ain’t easy, but there are solutions. A couple of great takeaways I had from this episode

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41:46

Travel Lessons

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/10/08

So-called “urbanists” tend to travel to foreign lands and come back with the obvious takeaways: foreign cities good, American cities bad. I get that. I understand the impulse. I’ve done it myself, so who am I to judge? But let’s suppose for a minute we put that impulse on pause, and ask, what can we learn that can be applied quickly and inexpensively to American cities? If we look past the charm of thousand-year old human settlements, are there other lessons worth learning? I explore this, and have

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58:58

How Does a Small Developer Actually Make Money?

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/09/03

Monte Anderson of Neighborhood Evolution and Options Real Estate in Duncanville, Texas joins me to talk about extremely practical matters: making money in real estate. That is, as a small developer, how is it actually done? What are the pros and cons of different approaches, such as buying and holding vs selling?We start this by discussing a YouTube video from The Real Estate God. Yes, that’s the real channel. Titled, “The best way to 3x your money in 2024,” the video is a good jumping off point for

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47:48

Cities and Parents: Let's Get Real About What Matters

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/08/27

Truth is, I wish we talked a lot more about making cities as kid-friendly as possible. The topic is often overlooked. That’s why it was fascinating to see Derek Thompson’s article, “The Urban Family Exodus Is a Warning For Progressives” get so much traction. He clearly touched a nerve.Today, I give my take in this solo podcast. As a father, as someone that loves cities, and someone that is in fact deeply concerned about the trendlines, I share my observations. This one gets a little personal. Ground

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66:15

Exploring the Mechanics of an Architect’s First Small...

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/08/20

We travel to the beautiful Pacific Northwest this week to talk with architect Cary Westerbeck. Cary lives and works in Bothell, Washington, a northern suburb of Seattle. He traces his path from being a bicycle mechanic to architect, developer and even Planning Commission member.One of the really cool things about this episode is hearing Cary take me step by step through his process to build the Fir Street Lofts. This size of project, 3 apartments and one retail space, is the kind of project that

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60:12

Jim Heid and the Small-Scale Developer Forum

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/08/13

Abby Newsham and I have some fun with a joint podcast this week, as we host Jim Heid. Jim runs the Small Scale Developer Forum, and has a new book called “Building Small: A Toolkit for Real Estate Entrepreneurs, Civic Leaders, and Great Communities.” He spent some time in Kansas City while preparing to host his next forum here in October. Registration is open now!Jim is a wealth of great information for emerging developers. A landscape architect by trade, he came to development mid-career. He shares

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60:21

Missouri's Favorite Topic: KC vs St Louis

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/08/06

This week, we take a little different tack and explore a time-worn Missouri rivalry: Kansas City vs St Louis. I invite two born-and-raised St Louisans, Abby Newsham and Jason Carter-Solomon to explore what is working and what is not with these two cities and metros. These two regions dominate this part of the Midwest, but have entirely different cultures and growth trajectories. If you go back far enough to Joel Garreau’s “Nine Nations of North America” you may remember that he labeled Kansas City

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60:21

Code Reform is not just about Zoning

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/07/30

There’s so many acronyms in this episode, it might make your head spin. We talk about IRC, IBC, IEBC, ADA, FHA and more. John Anderson and I don’t do this to punish you, or make you feel confused. But, it’s critical to understanding the world of how buildings actually get built. John is usually good for at least a couple of one-liners, and this one is my favorite in this episode:Real estate development is a black box full of money and villains.You’ll learn in this episode why requiring sprinklers in

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64:51

A Conversation with Joe Minicozzi

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/07/23

There’s a lot of takeaways from any conversation with Joe Minicozzi, or one of his many public presentations. Here’s mine today: omnipotent forces didn’t create our current systems, whether we are talking about zoning, traffic engineering or tax assessment. Or, in fact, just about anything in life.These were all created by fallible humans. We can, and should, change them. It’s our duty, our responsibility. Your local tax system, and your local zoning code were not handed down to you by Moses from

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66:38

Planning Takes Center Stage in Kalamazoo

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/07/09

I’m not often left speechless when I’m interviewing guests, but for a few moments here I struggled to digest what Rebekah Kik was telling me about Kalamazoo. If you’re a planner, you must listen to this episode. This is a truly inspirational effort in a city that doesn’t get the limelight. For a city of about 75,000 people in a quiet corner of Michigan, the staff and community have done amazing work.The story is mostly about a planning effort called Imagine Kalamazoo, which sounds like every

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65:31

Parking Parking Parking!

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/07/02

We must talk about your parking regulations. In fact, we must mock them. In no other area of life do head spins quicker, and people’s opinions take on truly bizarre forms, than we we talk about parking. I get it, we are a culture obsessed with driving and parking. It’s part of nearly adult’s daily routine. In this episode, Tony Jordan of the Parking Reform Network and I have some fun with it, while also diving into the nitty-gritty of how to make change in your community.As a bonus, Tony describes

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65:32

Talking Streetcars and Transit with Mr. KC Streetcar

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/06/25

It’s no secret in the world of transit and streetcars that Kansas City has had one of the most successful new streetcar lines in the country. For a two-mile “starter line,” it’s had an outsized impact on our city’s reputation and civic image. Today, I talk with the man behind RideKC Streetcar, Tom Gerend.Tom is a planner by education, but work took him eventually into the world of transportation planning and now, operations. We talk about how a planner ends up in this kind of role, and how he’s

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59:46

"Coach" Carson connects Financial Independence to...

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/06/18

As I said right off the beginning of this interview, I really love it when worlds collide in my own life. It’s one of the more joyful aspects of doing a podcast, and talking with people in real life.Chad “Coach” Carson is someone in the Financial Independence world that I’ve listened to and followed for some time. He’s a very genuine guy, and his particular niche focuses on using small-scale real estate investment to build financial freedom for yourself and your family. Check out his website,

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82:06

Frank Starkey: Architect as New Urbanist Developer

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/06/11

Frank Starkey and his family are one of those rare breeds of Floridians that actually have deep roots in the Sunshine State. We talk about how they sought to owner their grand-dad’s wishes as they ultimately developed the family cattle ranch in New Port Richey. A big part of their work was the Traditional Neighborhood Development (TND) called Longleaf. And later, the Starkey Ranch project.Here’s a funny real estate video about Longleaf: (funny to me, anyway)If you listen to Frank, you’ll learn how

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53:26

On Housing with Aaron Lubeck

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/06/04

Aaron Lubeck and I sat down in Cincinnati, during CNU 32, to talk a lot about housing, policy, and how to actually make change. Aaron writes a Substack called On Housing, where he frequently explores these issues. And, he’s one of the founders of Southern Urbanism, which has a terrific array of writers and feature pieces.Some of the posts we discuss:I am Going to Gring Back the Sears HomeWhat’s Next for Jane Jacobs’ Sidewalk Ballet?A Brief Detour to Honor My Old LadyHow North Carolina became a

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57:13

Gen X - Step Up or Opt Out?

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/05/29

I join my favorite Akron-ite, Jason Segedy, in Akron, to talk about northeast Ohio, Strong Towns, and generational roles. We do this while sitting outside a former major tire factory, in the tire capital of the world. What a cool scene it was. It makes me think I need video for these discussions.Jason and I seem to have a lot in common, and he’s the kind of person I can chat with for hours. As I told him toward the end, I also just really love and admire people who love their town. It’s become such

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105:27

KC Crew, May 2024 - Real Talk

The Messy City Podcast ·

2024/05/21

Two of last year’s most popular guests return to talk all things KC real estate, and especially urban core development. It’s a challenge right now, and we talk about why, and when things might change.We also hit on some topics that people like to avoid, such as this piece on surging exurban development in our region. Do urbanists understand how little we produce, compared to what’s happening in the burbs?Finally, we discuss the tangled web of drug stores closing in the urban core, and the importance

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108 results

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