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PODCAST

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact? Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts,

business management

All Episodes

18:41

360 Reviews Without the Dread

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/29

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan unpacks the intricacies of 360 reviews from a management perspective, offering pragmatic approaches to synthesizing overwhelming feedback data. They contrast methodical theme-based analysis with modern AI-assisted solutions, emphasizing that meaningful feedback isn't an annual crucible but a continuous conversation peppered with five compliments per criticism.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor

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43:24

Troy Sultan: How Guide Turned RCs into Iron Man

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/25

In this episode, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich interview Troy Sultan who shares his journey from Google to founding Guide, an AI-powered recruiting coordination platform. Sultan challenges traditional recruiting assumptions, arguing modern candidates prefer transparency, speed, and self-service options that let them control their hiring experience.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR

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22:39

Sapphire VC’s People Leaders Retreat & Deep Fakes

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/22

Kelli and Nolan recap their experience at the recent Sapphire People Leader Retreat focused on the evolving role of CPOs in 2025, covering executive alignment, moral boundaries, burnout prevention, and peer networks. They also share a case of corporate identity theft targeting job candidates, highlighting emerging recruitment security challenges.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is

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42:56

Character AI's Annie Wickman on PMF, Google's Deal,...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/17

Annie Wickman shares insights from her journey as Google alum, first non-founder at Humu, and now Head of People at Character AI. Annie tackles our hardest questions in an unmissable episode. She covers the tensions between product-market fit and company culture, Character AI's unprecedented Google deal structure, taking the leap from people leader to a VC, and how to rebuild organizational trust.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising

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19:52

Startup Ethics: All In or Out

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/15

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss a listener's dilemma about working with ethically questionable founders. They explore the tension between startup rule-bending culture and personal values, advising that leadership requires either full alignment with founders or graceful departure.They reflect on the impossibility of compartmentalizing personal trauma, the importance of workplace support networks, and practical advice for both those experiencing crises and colleagues

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46:29

VC Brett Queener Unpacks AI-Native Startups and the...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/10

HR Heretics welcomes back guest Brett Queener, Managing Director at Bonfire Ventures, for a check in on the current venture landscape.Fresh from raising a $245 million fund, Queener explores how AI is fundamentally changing software companies, emphasizing the need for rapid iteration and questioning traditional playbooks. He shares thoughtful perspectives on evaluating AI startups beyond the hype, the changing nature of talent requirements, and why successful companies must embrace a "change

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30:55

Claude's Human-Like AI & Groundbreaking Research from...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/08

In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, Metaview CEO, and Nolan Church dissect Anthropic's groundbreaking paper “Tracing the thoughts of a large language model” released on March 27, 2025. They explore surprising findings: LLMs plan ahead rather than simply predicting next tokens, think across multiple languages simultaneously, and often present explanations that satisfy humans rather than reflecting their actual reasoning processes.The conversation highlights the paradox of developing

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52:19

Solving for False Negatives in Hiring with Arthur...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/04

Today we're excited to introduce you to an episode of 10x Recruiting, a podcast from Metaview hosted by our very own Nolan Church. 10x Recruiting is focused on conversations with top talent leaders to help listeners build world-class teams and stay ahead in the evolving recruiting landscape.Today's guest is Arthur Matuszewski, who shares insights from his diverse career at Bridgewater, Better.com, and his firm Carrara. He emphasizes intellectual honesty, focusing on work outputs rather than titles,

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46:22

Rethinking the HRBP Role with Lucy Adams, Disruptive HR

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/03

In this episode, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church are joined by Lucy Adams, founder of Disruptive HR. Adams critiques traditional HR's rigid policies, advocating instead for judgment-based approaches that treat employees as grown-ups. The conversation explores challenges facing HR business partners, the evolution of DEI initiatives, and how organizations can create environments where people thrive through high-trust cultures, rather than compliance-driven systems.*Email us your questions or topics

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23:09

Real Personal Crises at Work

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/04/01

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss the profound impact of personal crises on work life. They share vulnerable stories about caring for ill family members—Kelli's mother's recent stage four cancer diagnosis and Nolan's father-in-law's illness and passing. They reflect on the impossibility of compartmentalizing personal trauma, the importance of workplace support networks, and practical advice for both those experiencing crises and colleagues supporting them.*Email us your

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23:21

HR Spy Games: Deel vs Rippling

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/03/27

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Nolan and Kelli discuss recent HR tech industry drama involving Rippling and Deel, where a "spy" from Deel allegedly infiltrated Rippling to steal competitive information.They describe Rippling's elaborate "honeypot" trap to catch Deel's corporate spy and how this incident exemplifies the evolution of business conflicts from private disputes to public social media spectacles, highlighting workplace transparency's growing complexity.*Email us your questions or

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36:09

HR Needs More Tension with David Hanrahan

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/03/25

Nolan and Kelli welcome back friend of the pod David Hanrahan, who's just 60 days into his new role as CHRO at SolarWinds. The conversation kicks off with candid reflections on the Transform 2025 conference - the good, the bad, and what's missing from HR conferences today. They also dig into David's challenges and learnings transitioning to his new role, and a discussion on the changes coming for L&D initiatives.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor

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16:17

Calibration Sessions Demystified

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/03/18

In another edition of 'Dear Heretics' Nolan and Kelli tackle talent calibration sessions. They address how HR needs to balance facilitation versus providing opinions and establish clear processes beforehand. They explore calibration's dual purpose: ensuring consistent evaluation standards and developing forward-looking talent plans. Above all, calibration needs to be an iterative process requiring transparency and company-wide understanding to avoid becoming toxic or misunderstood.*Email us your

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44:14

Compliance Training Doesn't Have to Suck: The Ethena...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/03/13

Kelli and Nolan are joined by Roxanne Petraeus, CEO of Ethena, to talk about her journey from the US army to founding an HR tech company. She shares her views on leadership, the distinction between training and learning, and building a culture of intellectual meritocracy in a remote-first environment. The conversation explores how compliance training evolved from her military experiences, covers the role of Chief People Officers, and reveals how military discipline shaped her approach to building

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40:11

First 90 Days as CPO of a Big Company: Colleen...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/03/11

Friend of the pod Colleen McCreary discusses some big news: her return to a CPO role at a remote-first public company (Confluent). She shares insights on navigating the first 90 days, organizational change, implementing a company-wide initiative to eliminate unnecessary processes, and gearing up for lots of 1:1s. Colleen, Kelli, and Nolan discuss transparent leadership, building community in remote environments, and bringing humanity to workplace policies—all while balancing the challenges of

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18:27

Crickets On Your Job Search? Do THIS Instead.

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/03/06

Nolan and Kelli discuss tech job search strategies, emphasizing proactive networking over mass applications., and recommend targeted outreach with concise value propositions that highlight business impact. They stress building relationships both inside and outside your company, maintaining professional connections, and adapting to a job market that increasingly demands quantifiable contributions.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising

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13:07

JP Morgan's CEO Hates Remote Work

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/03/04

Nolan and Kelli talk about Jamie Dimon's leaked critique of remote work while examining the collision between post-pandemic workplace expectations and corporate realities. They explore leadership's critical role in employee engagement, the shifting talent marketplace, and how organizational culture ultimately determines whether flexibility becomes an asset or liability in modern workplaces.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire

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25:31

Agentic AI: Hype vs Reality? with Siadhal Magos of...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/02/28

In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, the CEO of Metaview, and Nolan Church discuss 'agentic AI' in a practical and relevant way for HR pros. They dig into what agentic AI is today vs future expectations and debate current tool limitations. They also share their current AI tool stack, workflows, and their overall approach to viewing AI like a 'junior colleague'.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at

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18:58

The Feedback Dilemma: Ethics vs Risk

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/02/25

Kelli and Nolan talk about candidate feedback during hiring processes and debate whether companies should provide feedback to rejected candidates, especially those who've invested significant time in interviews and assignments. They discuss recruiter bandwidth challenges and liability concerns while advocating for human-centered feedback approaches, especially for onsite candidates, plus advice on requesting feedback gracefully.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For

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40:19

Airbnb’s Iain Roberts on Designing HR as a Strategic...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/02/20

Iain Roberts, Global Head of Employee Experience at Airbnb, discusses experimenting in HR in 2025, the design-thinking reshaping organizational structures, and why CEO Brian Chesky’s ‘Founder Mode’ is much misinterpreted. Iain covers innovative approach to flexible work, cross-functional alignment, and treating employee programs as evolving products requiring continuous refinement.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at

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184 results

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