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PODCAST

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact? Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts,

business management

All Episodes

45:02

Board Seats and Beyond, with Asana's Head of People...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/02/18

Anna Binder, Head of People at Asana, shares her journey as an HR leader, her approach to board membership at CultureAmp, and her philosophy on talent management. The discussion covers the nitty gritty of preparing and contributing in board meetings, long-term DEI initiatives, and the importance of authentic leadership in HR, particularly highlighting the value of playing the long game in organizational development.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and

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15:08

Tucking In Top Performers

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/02/14

Nolan and Kelli talk about retaining top-performing employees (the crucial 1%) and emphasize that compensation alone isn't sufficient; leaders must combine verbal recognition, proactive compensation strategies, transparency, and genuine appreciation. They stress the importance of eliminating compensation anxiety for these key employees and building long-term relationships, and argue that thoughtful, personalized treatment of top talent ultimately benefits both the individual and organization.Email

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15:14

Anthropic’s Interview Rules

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/02/12

Nolan and Kelli talk about AI's role in hiring processes, sparked by Anthropic's policy against using AI in job applications. They explore the tension between AI as a valuable tool and its potential for interview deception, ultimately advocating for a more integrated approach where candidates openly demonstrate their AI usage skills rather than attempting to restrict or hide it.Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at

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24:04

TikTok & Tech Layoff Strategy with Jesse Tinsley

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/02/07

Entrepreneur Jesse Tinsley - founder of Employer.com and other successful tech ventures - discusses his consortium's bid to acquire TikTok alongside MrBeast. The dialogue with Kelli and Nolan examines the philosophical and practical implications of executive compensation reduction during corporate restructuring, while illustrating how digital discourse can evolve into substantive debate when moved from social media to direct dialogue.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions:

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45:43

Hidden Job Market: Exec Hiring 2025 with Adam Ward

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/02/04

Adam Ward (founding partner, Growth by Design) discusses the current landscape of executive hiring in people/talent roles, particularly the prevalence of "pocket listings" - positions filled through private networks rather than public postings. He offers insights into what CEOs value in people leaders (business-driven mindset, operational excellence), how candidates can effectively navigate professional networks, and the importance of structured hiring processes.*Email us your questions or topics

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14:45

Navigating the Complexity of Company Values

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/30

Kelli and Nolan examine the art of building authentic company values. Through real-world experiences, they reveal the methodical process of transforming abstract principles into tangible organizational behavior that drives meaningful cultural change.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing

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15:46

Breaking Through Reorg Paralysis

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/28

Kelli and Nolan tackle a listener's frustration with a painfully slow reorg process, diving into the eternal tension between perfect planning and actually running the business. When HR and legal reviews stretch into week four, should you keep waiting for perfection or pull the trigger? Towards the end of the episode, Kelli and Nolan get into brass tacks offering tactical timelines to execute a reorg based on hypothetical examples.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics’ questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co

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42:45

Smart Hiring with Tom Clayton

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/23

Tom Clayton, COO of Peek, shares his unconventional playbook for building world-class teams. From his data-driven "employee attribute chart" to his rule of "don't be a brand b***h," Tom breaks down how he's scaled companies from 50 to 2000+ employees.He dishes on everything from why he sends champagne to candidates' hotel rooms to why he encourages employees to quit and start their own companies.If you’re listening on podcast platforms, be sure to check out our Substack or YouTube channel to see

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21:39

When Success Means New Bosses: A Startup Growth Story

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/21

Kelli and Nolan unpack the delicate art of layering – that awkward moment when someone gets a new boss – while calling out the pitfalls of secret searches and celebrating the often-forgotten heroes of early startup days. Equal parts tactical advice and therapy session for growing companies.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when

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20:28

Unlocking HR's Hidden Insights with Siadhal Magos [AI...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/17

Think AI is just about robots summarizing your emails? Think again. Metaview co-founder and CEO Siadhal Magos reveals how AI's real impact in an org is making sense of workplace conversations, performance reviews, and all the messy human stuff that HR deals with.Start recognizing the opportunities presented by ‘unstructured data’ to transform HR from subjective guesswork to data-driven decisions, without losing the human touch.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan:

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16:10

Adapting to Startup Reality and Having More Impact

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/15

Nolan and Kelli talk about the culture shock of moving from corporate behemoths to the startup wild west. They share battle-tested wisdom on surviving the transition - from mastering the art of founder relationships to embracing the (sometimes brutal) transparency demands of startup employees. Along the way, they reveal how corporate luxuries like two-hour gym breaks get replaced by the exhilarating but exhausting reality of building something from scratch.*Email us your questions or topics for

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17:52

The Art of Not Getting Fired for Not Firing People

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/10

Kelli and Nolan start with a heartfelt discussion about LA fires before diving into the art of handling CEO mandates for attrition targets. They reveal insider strategies for transforming harsh directives into meaningful performance frameworks, while warning against becoming the dreaded "person of no."*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified

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43:23

The Anti-Org Chart: Why Colin Zima Traded HR for...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/09

Colin Zima, former Looker exec turned Omni CEO, reveals how he runs a 65-person Series A startup with no HR or G&A team. Learn why he believes in minimal bureaucracy, why founders should do the "dirty work," and what really breaks after a Google acquisition.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication:

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47:40

Big Tech Alumni: Help or Hindrance? with Bryan Power

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2025/01/02

From Square to Nextdoor, Bryan Power reveals why copying Big Tech's playbook might be your biggest mistake.Find out why Square banned hiring from the payments industry while building a payments company. Discover how conventional wisdom about senior talent can become startup kryptonite and why the safe choice isn't always the smart choice.Bryan Power is a veteran Silicon Valley People executive who's shaped talent strategy at tech giants like Google and Yahoo, built Square from 150 employees, and now

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16:51

The Very Best of Heretics 2024

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/12/31

Happy New Year from HR Heretics!Together, we've built something extraordinary: a community of forward-thinking HR professionals who dare to question the status quo, welcome straight talk, and thrive on healthy debate.In today's special year-end episode, we're sharing some of our top moments, most controversial takes, and the conversations that simply blew our minds with new approaches to people, hiring, managing, and shaping the culture of high performing teams. Think of this as your ultimate HR

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29:25

The Year End Special: Personal L’s, Big Wins, and Why...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/12/20

It’s been quite a year! Kelli and Nolan bare it all in their 2024 wrap-up. Get their must-read books, binge-worthy podcasts, and raw personal journeys - including Kelly's identity crisis and Nolan's toughest year yet. Plus, hear why 2025 might be the year to go 'risk on' and why your company's headcount could be holding you back. No fluff, just real talk from two HR leaders who've been there.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising

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29:00

Striking at the Heart of the Future of Work | AI...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/12/18

Are digital workers coming for your job? In this episode, Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos— our resident AI expert— breaks down the rise of AI-powered SDRs and what it means for the future of work. From 11x.ai's $75M raise to replace human sales reps, to broader implications for recruiting and tech roles, discover why VCs are betting big on AI labor. This is a candid discussion about job displacement, productivity gains, and why getting your hands dirty with AI might be your best career move.Discover how

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13:43

Why Messy is Good and Structure is Overrated

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/12/13

Ever wondered why your HR team feels like a bunch of separate countries? Tune in as Kelli and Nolan reveal why mixing your People Ops like finger paint might be the secret sauce to scaling – and why that messy feeling means you're actually crushing it.Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at

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54:13

Be an Infinite Learner with Chris Yeh

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/12/12

Chris Yeh – author, venture partner, and co-writer of Blitzscaling (with Reid Hoffman) – shares insights from his multifaceted career as a Silicon Valley insider. Yeh discusses staying relevant in tech, the necessary skill of unlearning, and why traveling with potential partners might be the best way to assess compatibility. Yeh gives our listeners a masterclass in adaptability and authentic leadership.Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business

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24:29

Stop Saying You're a Business Partner (And Actually...

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards... ·

2024/12/06

Tired of hearing "HR needs to be more business-focused" without any real direction? In this episode, Kelli and Nolan cut through the noise with actionable insights from veteran CPO Jeff Diana. Learn why joining sales calls, understanding your P&L, and getting your hands dirty in customer support might be your secret weapons. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli &

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184 results

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