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PODCAST

The Panel

Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, Jordan Gal

When it comes to bootstrapping and building software, there"s rarely one right answer. We want to dive into the nuance. In every episode, veteran founders Justin Jackson, Brian Casel and Jordan Gal tackle thorny topics – from pricing and product strategy to work-life balance. No gurus, no easy answers – just real conversations we"d normally have behind closed doors.

business entrepreneurship

All Episodes

87:39

The power of attention

The Panel ·

2026/04/18

In this episode we discuss how small teams can leverage AI as teammates, the impact on business outcomes, and the cultural shifts driven by AI advancements. How would Steve Jobs handle marketing and selling AI at Apple? How do the kids today think about AI? And Jordan explains the Allbirds nonsense.Chapters:00:00 Introduction01:38 The Evolution of Teamwork and Tools07:41 Balancing Accountability and Autonomy10:40 The Role of Agents in Team Dynamics13:42 Challenges of Implementing AI in

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91:36

Is "vision" overrated?

The Panel ·

2026/04/10

Does vision matter? And how far into the future should your vision be these days? And how do we deal with copycats in the age of AI? And who is our money pin in the Anthropic vs OpenAI vs Google horse race, especially with mythos in the news.Timestamps:(00:22) - Jordan's our host this episode(02:57) - Struggles with pricing on analytics and tracking (08:22) - What are the metrics you look at every day? (19:06) - Thinking about profitability (27:16) - Anthropic vs OpenAI vs Google AI horse

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89:11

Respite from the Dopamine Machine

The Panel ·

2026/04/03

Why doesn't AI prompt us more often if it's so smart? Ryan Hefner joins us to chat about our daily drivers for shoes, IDE, AI provider, getting the news, and planning a vacation. Timestamps:(00:07) - Introducing Ryan Hefner(03:53) - Today's topic: how we choose our daily drivers (04:54) - Updates with Justin (08:54) - Update from Brian (14:16) - Ryan's Launch week concept (23:04) - The concept of daily drivers in life (25:35) - Daily driver shoes (29:58) - Daily driver IDE (33:31) - Remote

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57:34

Can AI be your CRM?

The Panel ·

2026/03/27

Justin's hosting this one and he brought along Ben Curtis from Honeybadger to talk about how AI can be a CRM and also your designer.Timestamps:(00:15) - Introducing Ben Curtis(02:57) - How is Honeybadger using AI? (06:35) - How do you determine which model to use for different problems? (09:33) - How are we using AI in marketing and sales? (24:09) - How Steve Schoger used AI to design (33:32) - How much longer will websites matter? (38:47) - How intelligent are LLMs at product market

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92:21

Scam or no scam? (with Jordan)

The Panel ·

2026/03/21

It's Jordan's turn to host and he's got some AI companies he's not sure about...Timestamps:(00:06) - Jordan's episode to host!(01:19) - Business update from Brian (05:45) - Justin's business update (14:09) - How Jordan advertises to his existing customers (21:50) - Jordan's business update (28:48) - Is Polsia fake or real? (40:47) - Adam Wathan announces ui.sh (58:12) - Is Delve AI compliance a scam? (01:14:45) - Where is OpenClaw today and what's the point? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us

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55:43

The money tunnel

The Panel ·

2026/03/14

Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about the opportunity costs in business decision-making, the impact of AI on marketing channels and strategies, and building custom internal tools with AI versus SaaS solutions.Timestamps:(00:44) - Brian takes the lead(02:17) - Opportunity costs (17:29) - What is Brian's opportunity on Twitter? (21:41) - Figuring out what Builder Methods is and who it's for (24:53) - Should Brian hire someone to help achieve his goal? (28:47) - How is AI killing Saas (39:54)

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86:52

A rainbow of internet fantasies

The Panel ·

2026/03/06

What happened to you in Mexico? Justin is back from his co-founder retreat with Jon on Holbox Island. He gets vulnerable about the drift that naturally happens in a remote co-founder relationship, the big conversations they'd been avoiding, and the realization that alignment isn't a one-time thing (it requires constant investment!). Jordan and Brian weigh in on co-founder dynamics, decision-making in a 50/50 partnership, and why strategy has to belong to a key decision maker. The

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56:30

Embracing our AI business owning bots

The Panel ·

2026/02/27

Brian and Jordan talk about the need for developers to adapt to survive, Brian debates how much of a content creator he is vs product seller, Jordan relates his experience talking with investors, and the rise of zero human companies ZHC.Timestamps:(00:18) - Welcoming Justin er Jordan back to the show(02:48) - Companies that we're surprised aren't adopting AI tools (11:49) - Roles are blending together (20:18) - Is Brian a product person or creator? (33:36) - Or should he be doing

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53:06

A surprise announcement

The Panel ·

2026/02/20

We make 2 big announcements about changes to The Panel. Then we debate whether there's a founder branding advantage and how AI will affect small software teams in 2026.Timestamps:(00:46) - Our first announcement(02:20) - Why are we bringing Jordan on as a co-host? (06:51) - Why did Jordan want to join The Panel? (14:48) - What's the new format for The Panel? (18:29) - Is there a founder branding advantage? (37:03) - How is AI going to affect Saas in 2026 and beyond? (43:32) - How small

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1:13

Changes coming to The Panel podcast

The Panel ·

2026/02/19

Important: we're no longer livestreaming on Justin's personal YouTube channel. Make sure you're subscribed to The Panel's channel to get notified when we go live:Subscribe to The Panel YouTube here -->Join us FRIDAY (tomorrow, Feb 20) at 11 AM Pacific (2 pm EST) for a surprise announcement:https://www.youtube.com/live/sxASjnzAYkwWe'll be announcing:- A new ███████ ██████ ████- And a brand new ████ ███████- New livestream/recording time: Friday, 11 am Pacific- Livestreams will now be

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84:40

Get to the sauna!

The Panel ·

2026/02/13

Brian and Justin jump off Matt Shumer's "Something Big is Happening" article to ask questions like is something big happening in AI that even regular folks need to be preparing for? Is this the most important year of your work as a software developer? Should you be getting your financial house in order to prepare for what's about to hit us all?Timestamps:(00:12) - Sick snow(02:46) - Something big is happening here (AI edition) (21:02) - Not having to be held down by legacy code speeds you

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114:23

OpenClaw and Building Fake Apps

The Panel ·

2026/02/06

Come meet the crew of AI agents Brian has working for him, Justin's building fake apps to experiment and find out what he wants for real apps, and why don't we feel like we can relax now that we're doing ok?Timestamps:(00:45) - What we're talking about this episode(03:14) - Brian's OpenClaw setup (11:57) - The cost of token usage with OpenClaw (17:32) - What makes the memory better in OpenClaw? (22:38) - What about Cowork? (25:21) - Working with multiple agents in OpenClaw (27:07) - The

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105:20

"What happens when engineering outpaces marketing?" –...

The Panel ·

2026/01/16

Jordan Gal joins The Panel to get some thoughts out about how software development feels like it's shifted since the holiday break, the lowering cost of making a mistake, how his team has to get ready for the new AI first workflow, marketing in the age of AI, and what happens to funding startups when anyone can build the app?Timestamps:(00:06) - Welcome(00:20) - Introducing Jordan (01:34) - The world changed over the holiday break (12:17) - The cost of making a making a mistake used to be

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103:42

2026: We Choose Hope

The Panel ·

2026/01/09

Now that the holiday break is over, how are we feeling about 2026? We're talking about the new ideas we have to build or work on, as well as predictions for 2026 in AI, building, normal tech usage, and social media.Timestamps:(00:07) - New year, new excitement(01:40) - What has changed since the holiday break? (06:18) - Is Justin going to republish Marketing for Developers? (11:30) - Building a membership site in Ghost (18:37) - How Justin might release the updated content and

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101:17

2026: Panic or Hope?

The Panel ·

2025/12/19

We're looking back at what our thoughts were about 2025, and scheming ideas and plans for 2026. How do you hand over decision making in your business in an AI world? How does remote work first affect junior developers? And do you panic when sales slow down? Adjust? Rethink everything?Timestamps:(00:06) - Does Transistor get quiet around the Xmas holidays?(02:08) - Dealing with insecurity in business (05:34) - The Panel in 2026 (07:09) - Looking back on 2025 (12:54) - What kind of person is

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100:57

Do you worry about getting crushed by the competition?

The Panel ·

2025/12/05

Justin shares his thoughts on competition crushing his business, Brian contemplates open sourcing an idea for front end AI tooling, and when should you run with a new idea vs knowing when to drop it.Timestamps:(00:00) - Get into it!(00:47) - A founder has to worry about threats and opportunities (17:55) - What got us here won't get us there (28:42) - Why are trials increasing in 2025? (34:20) - An update on Builder Methods (40:11) - Deciding when to drop or maintain a project (51:07) -

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83:03

Filtering out bad ideas

The Panel ·

2025/11/26

Brian and Justin discuss the recent launch of Filterhawk, which Brian built to replace Gmail's built-in filters. They also talk about SaaS marketing strategies (which channels still work?). Justin shares some initial numbers from the Black Friday sale.Timestamps:(00:06) - Follow up on last week's Justin mystery(02:51) - Brian launching Filterhawk (13:29) - How did Brian build Filterhawk in a week? (26:32) - The refinement phase (34:59) - Transistor's Black Friday sales (44:34) -

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88:27

Mystery caller

The Panel ·

2025/11/14

Brian and Justin are joined by a surprise guest: Nadav Keyson, founder of Riverside. We had an impromptu conversation about how Riverside launched (and found traction), the impact of funding (vs bootstrapping), how Navad thinks about competition, and whether he thinks having investors leads to more stress.Timestamps:(00:10) - Agenda for the episode(02:19) - The future of The Panel (16:18) - WE'LL DO IT LIVE! (17:22) - Nadav Keyson from Riverside joins (22:27) - How much should we think

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85:03

Maybe, do the opposite

The Panel ·

2025/10/31

AI dev is changing rapidly, and... AI dev is rapidly changing how we build websites and apps. Brian and Justin wrestle with this new reality and discuss the different phases of a startup, how indies can cultivate brand loyalty, and when you should maybe do the opposite of what everyone else is doing.Timestamps:(00:00) - What does Justin do all day?(00:14) - Welcome to The Panel (04:05) - The phases of startups (20:04) - AI coding might be moving away from spec driven development (27:52) -

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1:40

Bonus: "The Chat" theme song

The Panel ·

2025/10/24

During the last live recording, Justin made a quick song for the folks who show up every week in the livestream chat.Dedicated to our regular "chat crew:" Zack, Dave Giunta, Emmett, Pascal, Ryan, Beau and more!LyricsVerse 1:They're typing fast when the stream goes liveZack and Emmett keeping vibes aliveTechnical issues? They don't careBeau's reloading but they're all still thereChorus:Chat room warriors, showing up on timePascal's dropping wisdom, Michael's speaking his mindFrom AgentOS to

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