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PODCAST

The Conversation

The Conversation is a podcast all about Asian BL/GL/QL (and sometimes other queer media), coming at you from a film crit perspective. We swan in every other week-ish to shoot the shit on faves, flops and trends, artistry and industry nerdery, and also crack and simping, because we contain multitudes. NiNi is our editor and producer. Ben is our creative director and content manager. Shan is our associate producer. Twig is our correspondent. Our theme music is Dedication by Ron Gelinas Chillout

tv & film tv reviews

All Episodes

01:14:27

Lagniappe

The Conversation ·

2025/10/06

Ben, NiNi and Shan answer your questions and award the Girl Who Tried.Episode transcript available here.00:00 Welcome00:55 Introduction02:32 Inbox: Addicted, and Other Early BL19:13 Inbox: BL and Queer Cinema23:36 The Theory of Love RomCom Rewatch38:51 Girl, You Tried01:08:04 Outro: One Fuck Of A Year So Far

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01:41:31

Senior Prom Square Dance

The Conversation ·

2025/09/11

Our knees hurt and the music is too loud. Ben, NiNi, Shan and friend of the pod Turtles talk Gelboys and Heesu In Class 2.Episode transcript available here.00:00 Welcome00:55 Introduction08:36 Gelboys: A Portrait of Modern Youth17:32 Gelboys: Technology, Loneliness and Distraction30:58 Gelboys: Our Not-So-Fab Four40:30 Gelboys: Perspectives On The Ending44:28 Gelboys: Final Thoughts and Ratings53:17 Heesu In Class 201:00:41 Heesu In Class 2: The Story Is Storying01:09:55 Heesu In Class 2:

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01:32:21

American Toxic Yaoi

The Conversation ·

2025/09/04

Prestige TV is gay now! Historical bottom dementia is on the menu as we tackle two different era-spanning toxic romances. Ben, NiNi and friend of the pod Captain Hands talk Interview With the Vampire and Fellow Travelers.Episode transcript available here.00:00 Welcome00:55 Introduction02:25 Interview With The Vampire12:27 IWTV: The Vampire Mythos17:28 IWTV: The Best Bits21:35 IWTV: Claudia26:55 IWTV: Queerness in the Story36:19 IWTV: Gay Paree41:24 IWTV: Final Thoughts and Ratings51:16 Fellow

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01:01:08

Scent Of A Woman

The Conversation ·

2025/08/21

FINALLY SOME GOOD GL. Ben, NiNi and Twig talk Fragrance You Inherit and Fragrance of the First Flower.Episode transcript available here.00:00 Welcome00:55 Introduction03:16 Fragrance You Inherit08:34 Fragrance You Inherit: All About the Relationships17:46 Fragrance You Inherit: Sakura's Coming Out21:50 Fragrance You Inherit: On-chan24:21 Fragrance You Inherit: Final Thoughts and Ratings29:08 Fragrance of the First Flower37:14 Fragrance of the First Flower: A Friend and a Foe45:22 Fragrance of

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01:02:28

The Untamed Episodes: The Second Life

The Conversation ·

2025/06/05

In Part 2 of our Untamed discussion, Ben, NiNi, Shan and Bookworm talk our love for Jiang Cheng, our hatred for Meng Yao/Jin Guangyao, and why we will always hold out hope for more Chinese BL.Episode transcript available here.00:00 Welcome00:55 Intro: More Notes From The Future01:45 The Second Life09:23 The Second Life: The Fallout of Wei Wuxian's Choices16:52 The Second Life: Meng Yao's Dastardly Deeds26:52 The Second Life: The Tragedy of Wen Ning32:35 The Second Life: Two

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01:12:17

The Untamed Episodes: The First Life

The Conversation ·

2025/05/29

It's 'the biggest goddamn BL in the world', and we're finally going to talk about it. Ben, NiNi, Shan and Bookworm talk The Untamed. In Part 1 of our two-part episode, we talk censorship, the journey from MDZS to The Untamed, and the first half of the story.Episode transcript available here.00:00 Welcome00:55 Introduction03:55 Censorship in Media: A Global View12:37 The MoDaoZuShi Phenomenon24:33 The Big Picture33:36 The First Life40:07 The First Life: Thoughts and Impressions46:21

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01:08:21

The 2024 VIIB Awards

The Conversation ·

2025/02/06

It’s our 3rd Annual Very Important Internet BL Awards and we’ve changed up our whole shit! Ben and NiNi talk the best things we watched all year.Episode transcript available here. 00:00 Welcome 00:55 Introduction: It's Awards Season Once More 02:09 Acting! 08:00 Ships Ahoy! 16:31 Immortal Technique 29:05 Top Tings 41:43 Special Class Awards 43:11 Special Class: Honourable Mentions 47:36 Special Class: Mark Pakin 6th Man Awards 51:13 Special Class: Standout Queer Narratives 01:06:00 Outro

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01:04:27

The Diamond League

The Conversation ·

2025/01/30

It’s our holiday special (because it's a holiday somewhere in the world)! Ben, NiNi and assorted friends of the pod look back on 10 years of BL as a genre and talk 10 shows that define the genre for us.Episode transcript available here. 00:00 Welcome 00:55 Celebrating the BL Canon: A Retrospective 02:08 Blueming (2022) | KR | dir. Hwang Da Seul (Megan) 07:35 Dark Blue Kiss (2019) | TH | dir. Aof Noppharnach Chaiwimol (Shan) 13:59 He's Coming To Me (2019) | TH | dir. Aof Noppharnach

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01:09:09

Year In Review 2024

The Conversation ·

2025/01/23

Ben, NiNi and Shan discuss a weird year for QL and look ahead to 2025.Episode transcript available here. 00:00 Welcome 00:55 2024 Headlines: Industry Consolidation 06:49 2024 Headline: Self-Censorship 13:52 2024 Headlines: Vertical Format Micro-BLs and Other Shit We're Anti 20:14 Festivus Airing Of The Grievances 36:51 2024 Fan Awards 55:49 QL Resolutions 01:04:45 Affirmations and Hopes for the Future

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01:49:38

Hallyu

The Conversation ·

2025/01/16

Korea swung big at the end of the year and hit it out of the park on both the queer romance and queer life drama fronts. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk Let Free The Curse of Taekwondo and Love In The Big City.Episode transcript available here. 00:00 Welcome 01:15 Introduction: Let's Talk Hallyu 06:01 Let Free The Curse of Taekwondo 12:36 Taekwondo: Themes and Patterns In Hwang Da Seul's Work 21:54 Taekwondo: The Separation 33:28 Taekwondo: The Reunion 38:22 Taekwondo: On Hyeon Ho 44:57 Taekwondo: Final

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01:03:00

Lost Focus And Had A Consensual Workplace Relationship

The Conversation ·

2025/01/09

More takes on the office romance, now with bonus miscommunication! Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk Ayaka Is In Love With Hiroko and At 25:00 In Akasaka.Episode transcript available here. 00:00 Welcome01:16 Intro02:52 Ayaka Is In Love With Hiroko10:45 Ayaka: A Split Narrative17:20 Ayaka: The Negatives24:25 Ayaka: Final Thoughts and Ratings29:08 At 25:00 in Akasaka35:34 At 25:00 in Akasaka: It's the Characters for Us43:18 At 25:00 in Akasaka: Hayama and Shirasaki49:05 At 25:00 in Akasaka: Filmmaking and

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01:19:41

Pulpmania!

The Conversation ·

2024/12/27

The pulps are evolving in what seems like two distinct directions, and we have some thoughts on that. Ben, NiNi and friend of the pod Twig talk We Are and Knock Knock, Boys!Episode transcript available here. 00:00 Welcome01:15 Introduction05:56 We Are: Branded Pair Background14:37 We Are: A Rorschach Test of a Show30:47 We Are: Final Thoughts and Ratings38:21 Knock Knock, Boys!48:39 Knock Knock, Boys!: Sex Positivity55:51 Knock Knock, Boys!: Our Fab Four (and Jane)01:09:58 Knock Knock, Boys!:

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01:20:03

Mailbag Grab Bag

The Conversation ·

2024/12/20

It's a mailbag episode!Episode transcript available here. 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:02:10 Inbox: Surprises of the Season 00:07:07 Inbox: Does Categorization Matter? 00:11:42 Inbox: BL Fatigue? 00:15:51 Inbox: The BL Bubble 00:30:26 Inbox: Sex On Screen 00:41:07 Inbox: Fave Sex Scenes 00:51:24 Inbox: Worst Sex Scenes 01:04:24 Bonus Round: Best Sex in a Bad Show 01:06:54 Inbox: Critical Philosophy 01:18:31 Outro

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01:58:16

Finally, Some Good Fucking Food

The Conversation ·

2024/12/12

Queer truth is on back on the menu, just as we were starting to get FAMISHED. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk Marahuyo Project and No One Cares For An Old Man's Underwear.Episode transcript available here. 00:00 Welcome 01:15 Introduction 08:40 Marahuyo Project: A Queer Activist's Story 20:24 Marahuyo Project: On Queerness 30:16 Marahuyo Project: Our Characters 42:09 Marahuyo Project: The Christina Story 48:52 Marahuyo Project: Parents and Children 54:54 Marahuyo Project: Final Thoughts and Ratings 59:48

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00:28:55

Summer Lagniappe (A Minisode)

The Conversation ·

2024/09/23

Summer didn’t give us a lot to say, but we ALWAYS got something to say. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk a highlight of the season, Twig reports from the field, and we award summer’s Girl Who Tried.Episode transcript available here. 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:02:21 Twig’s Dispatch 00:14:24 Spotlight: Tadaima Okaeri 00:20:34 Girl, You Tried 00:27:08 Celebrating 50 Episodes

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01:14:56

GMMTV Breakfast Club

The Conversation ·

2024/08/05

School's in at GMMTV, but we gotta put two series in detention for not fulfilling the assignment. The actors were charming, but the finishes were...rough. Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk 23.5 and Only Boo, the merits of high school stories, and the specific challenges of telling stories about queer high schoolers.Episode transcript available here. 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:02:18 23.5: Early Reactions 00:14:18 23.5: Supporting Characters 00:21:27 23.5: Frustration with the Writing and

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01:01:50

Second Rate Second Chance

The Conversation ·

2024/07/15

Second chance romances, long-term pining, and their roles in queer narratives are our JAM, so we gotta talk about how two Japanese BLs should have been 10s but absolutely flopped for us. Ben, NiNi and Twig talk Love Is Better The Second Time Around and Living With Him. Join us to break down what it's like to watch a show fall apart in real time.Episode transcript available here. 00:00:00 Welcome 00:01:15 Introduction 00:02:38 Love Is Better The Second Time Around: What Worked 00:13:31 Love Is

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59:53

Going High-Low with Taiwan

The Conversation ·

2024/06/17

It’s been awhile since we checked in on Taiwan, and the latest offerings have really run the gamut in terms of quality. Ben, NiNi, and Shan sat down to discuss the state of Taiwanese BL via two recent shows, Anti Reset and Unknown.Episode transcript available here.00:00:00 Welcome00:01:15 Introduction00:02:11 Anti Reset and VBL00:13:13 Unknown the Series00:20:16 Unknown: The Pseudo Incest Trope00:27:53 Unknown: San Pang, Li Li, and Family in the Narrative00:35:48 Unknown: The Ending Stumble00:43:32

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52:31

Spring Lagniappe

The Conversation ·

2024/05/29

In our Spring Lagniappe, Ben and NiNi and friend of the pod Twig answer some questions, drive-by some pulps, and award the season's 'Girl, You Tried'.Episode transcript available here.00:00:00 Welcome00:01:15 Inbox: Comparing Cherry Magic Adaptations00:10:17 Inbox: Remaking Het Romances into QL00:16:04 Catch Up Corner: Young Royals season 300:21:23 Catch Up Corner: Man Suang00:25:12 Catch Up Corner: DNA Says Love You00:29:23 Twig's Dispatch00:38:35 Winter Round Up00:44:45 Girl, You Tried00:47:35

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89:40

Mixed Nuts, Part 2: Thoughts On Yaoi

The Conversation ·

2024/05/21

Japan is churning them out almost faster than we can keep up, so we dedicated a whole grab bag episode to give them the attention they're asking for. Ben, NiNi, Ginny and Shan talk what's working and what's not in Japanese BL as we discuss Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun, One Room Angel, Perfect Propose, Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro Ka, I Want To See Only You and I Became the Star of a BL Drama.Episode transcript available here.00:00:00 Welcome00:01:15 Grab Bag Part 2: J-BL00:02:22 Sahara-sensei to

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