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PODCAST

Beyond Listening

Miriam Jones and Adam Rumack, Co-Founders of Open Circle

Brought to you by Open Circle: a podcast for leaders and change makers who listen, adapt, and act. With guests from diverse industries, cultures, and political perspectives, and episodes that distill the lessons we’ve learned, and the questions we are still asking, after decades of guiding organizational and personal transformations. Join us on a journey of soul and spirit in leadership and action. Hosted by Miriam Jones and Adam Rumack. For more information visit

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All Episodes

01:27:44

E 58: Women's Wisdom

Beyond Listening ·

2025/03/04

In honor of International Women’s Day, we bring you a special episode of the Beyond Listening Podcast. Today, we celebrate the power, resilience, and wisdom of women by hosting five extraordinary guests who have courageously walked their unique paths in the world. Each of these women brings a powerful story of leadership, perseverance, and strength.Guests:Dr. Mona Armijo (Florida, USA) – A trailblazer working with Military SEALs, one of the few women among these honorable men.Mossy Kilcher (Alaska,

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00:42:47

E 57: Women & Men Are Different

Beyond Listening ·

2025/02/20

In this episode, Miriam Jones and Adam Rumack dive into why they have chosen to do women and men focused leadership work this year.From examining the dynamics of power and the challenges women face in leadership to the necessity of self-reflection and personal growth, this conversation sheds light on how both retreats foster personal development and empowerment. This conversation however isn’t just about retreats—it’s about embracing who you are, overcoming societal norms, and connecting with others

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01:07:12

E 56: Songs from the Wilderness: Atz Kilcher’s...

Beyond Listening ·

2024/10/15

In this chat around the fireside, Atz Kilcher shares his deep connection to music, nature, and the journey of self-acceptance. Reflecting on his childhood, he explores how the wilderness shaped his understanding of himself and the world around him. Atz reveals the therapeutic power of music and how returning to nature can help veterans and others find peace, purpose, and personal growth. Weaving stories of his time in Fox Canyon at the head of the Kachemak Bay in Alaska and the art of basket

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01:04:06

E 55: Songs from the Wilderness: Nature, Music, and...

Beyond Listening ·

2024/09/20

In this heartfelt episode of Beyond Listening, we sit down with veteran and musician Andrew to explore his journey from the military to a powerful career in songwriting. Andrew shares his early roots in punk rock and country music, how music helped him cope with the aftermath of his military service, and the transformative experiences he’s had through the Heroes Healing Homestead initiative, co-hosted by Atz Kilcher and Operation Encore.Andrew opens up about his time in the military, his struggle

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01:03:11

E 54: Navigating the Unknown: The Art of Guiding...

Beyond Listening ·

2024/09/12

In this episode, Adam and Miriam, co founders of Open Circle, dive deep into the complexities of guiding change, offering practical insights into both horizontal and vertical transformations. They emphasize the critical need for understanding and accepting change, while also exploring the common resistance humans face, often rooted in our fear of loss.Throughout the conversation, they address the challenges individuals and organizations encounter when guiding change, from managing resistance to

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00:58:39

E 53: Breaking Barriers: Adaptive Fitness and...

Beyond Listening ·

2024/07/17

Kiersten McCartney, “Coach K”, the program director and co-founder of Arena Adaptive, shares her journey and passion for engaging people with disabilities in exercise, fitness, and sport. She discusses the origins of her passion and the intentional community-building approach she takes in her work.The conversation covers a wide range of topics related to adaptive fitness, healthcare challenges for people with disabilities, and the importance of inclusion and understanding. Coach K shares insights

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00:50:15

E 52: The Impact of Nature on the Brain w/Amy...

Beyond Listening ·

2024/06/06

In our latest episode, we dive deep into the fascinating world of nature and its profound effects on the brain with Amy McDonnell, a research fellow at the University of Utah Applied Cognition Lab.Meet Our Guest: Amy McDonnell Amy McDonnell brings a wealth of knowledge and experience from her background in neuroscience and environmental psychology. Her research at the University of Utah Applied Cognition Lab focuses on the intersection of wilderness therapy, neuroscience, and environmental

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00:34:16

E51: Deciding how to Decide with Miriam and Adam

Beyond Listening ·

2024/06/04

Deciding how to Decide This conversation between Open Circle Founders, Miriam Jones and Adam Rumack, explores the topic of decision-making and challenges the assumptions we have about how and why decisions are made. It discusses the definition of decisions and power, both at an individual and group level. The conversation encourages questioning the structures and methods of decision-making and provides a framework for deciding how to decide. It explores different types of decision-making methods,

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00:52:38

E50: Purpose, principle, and performance with former...

Beyond Listening ·

2024/02/02

Purpose and values.These simple words hold huge meaning, and potential impact, for how we act in the world. Welcoming a kindred spirit this week, Adam and Brandon are joined by fellow wilderness expedition leader and founder of leadership development organization StoneWater, Phil Kornachuk. Phil’s work is rooted in purpose and values, recognising its importance for his own development and his work mentoring, coaching and inspiring growth in individuals, leaders, sports teams and elite military

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00:52:23

E49: A.I., Neuroscience, and the Mystical, with...

Beyond Listening ·

2023/12/28

How do we become optimistic about uncertainty? The modern world can be scary. AI is making its mark, anxiety levels are rising, and leaders are faced with more uncertainty than ever. Enter John Sanei: futures strategist, bestselling author, international keynote speaker, adviser to Fortune 100 companies, global expert at Singularity University and much more. A tireless educator, John is passionate about using practical neuroscience to elevate consciousness and build a brighter tomorrow. In the

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00:44:59

E48: Serving those who Serve

Beyond Listening ·

2023/11/29

Join us, to mark two milestones in the We are Open Circle journey: the confirmation of Brandon as a partner and the launch of the Open Circle Foundation. The key theme from today’s episode: uplifting humanity. Miriam, Adam and Brandon reflect on their shared journey, the divine appointment of their meeting, and the critical connections that forged their bond - as they reflect on the value of their shared work together: the power of their collaboration. Through their projects, empowering some of the

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01:12:29

E47: Conflict and Loving Dangerously with Chad Ford

Beyond Listening ·

2023/11/28

Welcome, for a fascinating insight into a truly singular human - international conflict mediator, college professor, senior consultant and facilitator for the Arbinger Institute, and NBA analyst for ESPN, Chad Ford. Chad has experienced a lot personally and professionally, and pours these experiences into his writing - fuelling a dedication for helping humanity overcome our differences and reconcile together. In the discussion with hosts Miriam and Brandon, we learn of his story, recounting the

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01:25:19

E46: More Than Fitness w/Coach Ellis and Coach Moore

Beyond Listening ·

2023/09/18

Resiliency, compassion, community, safe haven, mentorship. These are just some of the fruits of a powerful conversation shared with two committed and inspiring individuals, Coach Ellis and Coach Moore of More Than Fitness. Founded in 2018, More Than Fitness seek to serve the young people of their local community through mindfulness and exercise - creating a program that pushes physical limits, shares meaningful discussion and forges positive life experiences. Having recently partnered with

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00:43:01

E45: WTH just happened?: Big disruptions and the need...

Beyond Listening ·

2023/08/04

Welcome to a reflection on the process of change. Three years after the pandemic, it’s important to take a step back and take stock. What on earth just happened? And how can we move on? Adam and Miriam fly solo again this week, sharing a candid discussion on how to reintegrate after disruption to our routines, philosophies, organizations and in the world as a whole. They share their own experiences of evolution within We are Open Circle, and the key reintegration lessons of group wilderness

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00:40:25

E44: The 3 Kinds of Trust: w/Miriam Jones and Adam...

Beyond Listening ·

2023/06/22

Integrity, capability, commitment. Welcome to a rounded reflection on the role of trust within our communities, organizations and in society as a whole. Trust is a practice, not a skill - a lifelong process of evaluation and maintenance. Sharing reflections on the ‘three kinds of trust’ and the cyclical parallels of our professional lives and the natural world, today’s discussion reveals the inner tenets of the We are Open Circle methodology. Join us, as hosts Adam and Miriam share experiences from

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00:55:06

E43: The Challenges of Returning From War w/Mike...

Beyond Listening ·

2023/05/27

We are all one human tribe, travelling on the journey of life together. This message reveals itself as central to today’s discussion between Adam, Brandon Harding and guest Mike Waldron, founder of 23rd Veteran. Speaking candidly on his own experiences as a young adult in the Marine Corps, Mike reveals the scale of the difficulty he experienced when re-integrating into society, his journey toward hope and the calling he answered in setting up the not-for-profit organisation and sharing his

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01:01:04

E42: Education as Revolution: w/ Roblin Webb of...

Beyond Listening ·

2023/04/27

Joining us for a moving discussion on race, class and the power of education is Roblin Webb, Founder and CEO at Freedom Prep School in Tennessee. Roblin J. Webb, Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Freedom Prep Charter Schools, has dedicated her life’s work to striving for equality for all people. A passionate advocate for civil rights, Roblin outlines her definition of the movement - and reveals her inspiring journey from university graduate, to attorney, to becoming a tireless educator serving

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00:41:34

E41: Mental and Physical Toughness for the...

Beyond Listening ·

2023/03/20

Outdoors is where the magic happens. Today we welcome Dustin Diefenderfer, the founder of MTNTough Fitness Labs. A passionate advocate for the power of the outdoors to renew and develop our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual wellbeing, our discussion with Dustin reveals a passion for transforming lives. He shares the life experiences that showed the path to founding the company in 2016, unveiling a consistent theme of entrepreneurship as a journey - one that often mimics the principles and

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00:41:33

E40: Wellness in The Wild w/Brandon Harding

Beyond Listening ·

2023/02/01

“There is wellness to be found in the wild.” Our circle today sees hosts Adam and Miriam joined by Brandon Harding, our Wilderness program director. With a series of co-facilitated wilderness trips planned for 2023 and 2024, today’s conversation gives an insight into the topics, themes and discussion to be covered. Each of our speakers share candidly their own pivotal experiences in nature, comparing their experiences in military and non-military contexts - uncovering a shared theme of group

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00:39:01

E39: Trust, Trauma and Reality w/Mark Matzeldelaflor,...

Beyond Listening ·

2023/01/17

Community is build on collaboration, creativity and trust. Our guest today is Mark Matzeldelaflor, a former Navy Seal and founder of Guardian Grange, a veteran-powered regenerative agriculture and healing network. He shares thoughts from his journey, unfolding a life which has navigated themes of organisation, disorder and trauma. Reflecting on how life in the military posed challenges for re-integrating with ‘reality’, he speaks candidly on the impact of trauma in his community - underlining his

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