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PODCAST

The Former Lawyer Podcast

Do you hate working as a lawyer? Are you an unhappy lawyer who wants to leave the law, but isn"t sure what to do next? Do your family and friends think you"re crazy for wanting to leave the law, or are you too afraid to tell them you don"t want to be a lawyer? The Former Lawyer Podcast is for you! Each week, host Sarah Cottrell interviews a different former lawyer who has left the law behind. Hear inspiring stories about how these former lawyers are thriving and found their way to careers and lives

business careers

All Episodes

8:35

Do You Actually Want Another Legal Job After a Layoff?

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/10/05

Being laid off from a legal job can create a lot of anxiety, financial and otherwise. If you’ve been laid off, you’re worried that a layoff might be coming, or you’ve been through one in the past, there are very real practical concerns that come with losing your job. We all have bills, we all need to be responsible adults, and sometimes getting another job practicing law is the choice that makes sense.The question is whether you actually want another legal job or whether you’re looking for one

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8:43

The Cost of Staying in a Toxic Law Firm

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/09/28

Staying in a toxic law firm because you want to help change it can feel like a good reason to stay. You want to get to a position where you have more influence and can use that influence to make the environment better. The question is what staying long enough to get there is costing you along the way.The harder part is that toxic environments can change your sense of what is normal or acceptable. You can start out very clear about what feels wrong and, over time, become more comfortable with things

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8:58

When Leaving Law Feels Like Letting Other People Down

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/09/21

When leaving law feels like letting other people down, it can become much harder to take your own unhappiness seriously. For lawyers who are women, first-gen, people of color, or part of another historically underrepresented group, there can be a very real sense that being in these spaces is not just about them. Their achievement can start to feel tied to representing other people well and showing what is possible.The difficult part is that this sense of responsibility can mean having to get to a

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9:32

Why Your Law Job Feels More Unsustainable Than It...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/09/14

Your law job may feel more unsustainable than it used to, even if you were managing it fairly well before. Maybe you already knew the environment was not great, or that the work itself was never especially sustainable, but you were making it work. Now, all of a sudden, it feels completely impossible and you are wondering what changed.For a lot of lawyers, the instinct is to turn that question inward. Is it because you are weak? Is it because you cannot hack it anymore? Sarah talks about why being

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9:04

Why “Every Job Sucks” Is Bad Advice for Lawyers Who...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/09/07

“There’s a reason they call it a job.” “If it was fun, everyone would do it.” “The grass isn’t always greener.” Lawyers who hate their jobs hear some version of this all the time from people outside of the legal profession, usually when they are trying to explain just how miserable their work has become.There is a kernel of truth in the idea that every job involves some amount of work, frustration, and things you would rather not do. The problem is that every job does not suck in the way that being

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11:08

Do You Need Therapy or Career Coaching When You Want...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/08/31

When you start thinking about leaving the law, it is really common to realize that some of what you are trying to figure out is about your career and some of it goes much deeper than that. You may need help understanding what kind of work would actually be a good fit for you while also untangling why quitting feels so unsafe or why disappointing other people feels almost impossible.That is part of why therapy and career coaching can work so well together. They might both help you get to the same

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16:47

How to Figure Out What You Want to Do Instead of...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/08/24

You can know that you do not want to keep practicing law and still have no idea what you want to do. You may not even know what you could do. A lot of lawyers assume they need to have some sense of the answer before they can start when the process is actually designed for people who are in exactly your position.Part of what makes figuring out what comes next so uncomfortable is that there is no assessment that gives you one answer. You have to get a clearer picture of who you are, pay attention to

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11:37

Reconnecting With Your Creativity After Years in the Law

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/08/17

After years in the law, it can be easy to believe that creativity simply is not part of who you are. Maybe you stopped making time for things you used to enjoy, or maybe you decided a long time ago that being artistic was not practical, serious, or something that fit with the kind of person who becomes a lawyer.That belief can shape more than what you do outside of work. It can also shut you off from whole groups of jobs because you think of them as jobs for creative people, and you do not see

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17:04

What’s Next for the Former Lawyer Collaborative

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/08/10

If you have been thinking about joining the Former Lawyer Collaborative, now is the time. Enrollment is closing permanently on August 31, 2026, and while the program will remain open for another year, this is the last chance to join the community and work through the Former Lawyer Framework with Sarah’s support.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why she decided to close the Collaborative, what members will still have access to through August 31, 2027, and where

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31:45

The Misery of Knowing That One Is Doing Harm as a Lawyer

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/08/03

In today’s episode, Sarah is back again with Annie Little discussing the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber.The final misery covered in the book is the misery based on knowing that one is doing harm. The most obvious example of this as lawyers would be representing a person or entity, and they are asking you to do something that is itself harmful. While these situations may arise, people tend to be aware and can deal with the moral conflict. I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group

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26:03

The Misery of Not Feeling Entitled to One's Misery as...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/07/27

In today’s episode, Sarah is back again with Annie Little discussing the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber. It’s part of a series of podcast discussions diving into the miseries of a bullshit job, and today, it’s time to dive into the third misery that comes with bullshit jobs. If you missed the first two, go back and catch up.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/189I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If

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41:36

The Artificial Power Structure and Feeling Helpless...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/07/20

In today’s episode, Sarah is back again with Annie Little discussing the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber. It’s part of a series of podcast discussions, so check out the others before and after this one. Graeber gives four reasons why having a bullshit job feels so miserable. Last week’s discussion was all about the first reason—ambiguity and forced pretense—catch up on that one first. Then, let’s dive into the second reason.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/188I'm closing enrollment for my

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37:07

The Misery of Ambiguity and Forced Pretense in Law Firms

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/07/13

This episode is part 2 of the series where Sarah is chatting with Annie Little about the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber. If you missed the first episode in this series, check that out first and learn the background of this series and more about Annie. This episode is about the misery of ambiguity and forced pretense, which is the first of four things Graeber identifies as an impact that having a bullshit job can have on you.When it comes to ambiguity in law firms, the lack of transparency is

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27:08

Is Being A Lawyer A Bullshit Job?

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/07/06

Sarah revisits the Bullshit Job series on today's podcast with Annie Little, another lawyer career coach. Annie has been on the podcast a few times in the past, like the episode on ADHD. She founded her company, JD Nation, and helps lawyers find better jobs, both in and out of law. In this new series, the two of them discuss the book Bullshit Jobs: A Theory by David Graeber and dive into some of the book's observations. This first episode covers why you should care about this book and

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42:46

How Lawyers Can Rethink Their Skills for Business...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/06/29

In legal practice, it is easy to start measuring yourself by whether you can cover every detail, do everything perfectly, and keep grinding through whatever is in front of you. If that is not the way you are wired, it can feel like there is something wrong with you, instead of recognizing that the job is rewarding a narrow set of behaviors.Alex Su describes this as game selection. In business roles, especially sales, marketing, and business development, success often depends on trying things,

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30:38

How to Take A Mental Health Leave of Absence From...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/06/22

Listen, it's the summer of 2026. Everything is a dumpster fire, and there are a lot of people who have been struggling a lot with their mental health, especially in the last two years. Sarah's seen a lot of clients take mental health leave or after taking mental health leave. This episode serves as a reminder that even though it's not available to everyone, because it depends a lot on your particular employer, if it is something that your employer offers, and if you are struggling, it

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11:29

Leaving the Law When You’re Already Burned Out

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/06/15

Leaving the law when you’re already burned out can feel impossible, because the job you need energy to escape is the same job draining all of your energy. You may understand that you need to figure out what comes next, but when you are scraping by energetically, even one more task can feel like too much.That is where a lot of burned out lawyers get stuck. They assume that if they do not have hours and hours each week, whole weekends, or a huge amount of bandwidth to put toward leaving the law, then

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49:06

Making a Career Change When You're Afraid of Getting...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/06/08

Going to law school felt like the right call. For some lawyers it felt like the obvious call, backed up by experience, by personality, by everything they knew about themselves at the time. So when practicing law turns out to be a bad fit, the harder part is that the decision felt so right going in. If they were wrong about something they were that sure about, how can they trust themselves to choose anything else?That fear is what keeps so many lawyers where they are, even when staying is actively

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10:19

The Shame Lawyers Feel About Wanting to Leave Law

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/06/01

Somewhere along the way, most lawyers picked up the idea that once you commit to something, you follow through. No exceptions. So when the thought of leaving starts to surface, it doesn't feel like a career question. It feels like there's something shameful about admitting your original decision was wrong.But the decision to become a lawyer was made at a specific age, with a specific amount of information. The lived experience of actually practicing law is new information. And in almost

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37:30

From Commercial Litigator to Personal Trainer and...

The Former Lawyer Podcast ·

2026/05/25

Lawyers who know they want to leave often get stuck in the same place. Not because they don't want to move, but because they're waiting to feel certain about what comes next. Sarah Cottrell sees lawyers who won't make a move until they have a new 20-year plan with an absolute guarantee, and while they're waiting for that, nothing changes.Zach Reisch didn't have a master plan when he left commercial litigation. He had a spouse building a business, a growing sense that law

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