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PODCAST

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance

Richard Robinson & Gaye Francis

Due Diligence and Risk Engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss governance in an engineering context.Richard & Gaye are co-directors at R2A and have seen the risk business industry become very complex. The OHS/WHS "business", in particular, has turned into an industry, that appears to be costing an awful lot of organisations an awful lot of money for very little result.Richard & Gaye"s point of difference is that they come from the Common Law viewpoint of what would be expected to

technology management

All Episodes

13:06

Delaying Decisions to Avoid SFAIRP

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2026/03/29

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss Delaying Decisions to avoid SFAIRP (So Far As Is Reasonably Practicable). Their conversation covers: if lack of a decision is the result of ignorance and poor governance rather than deliberate strategyhow the elimination option often gets tested far too late in the design processwhy briefing board members and their legal counsel on WHS legislation obligations is often what fin...

en-au

16:10

New Zealand's Health & Safety Amendment Bill —...

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2026/03/22

In this episode, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss New Zealand's Health and Safety at Work Amendment Bill and explore why New Zealand is leading the in workplace health and safety. They break down the key changes in the amendment, including a sharper focus on critical risk and what this means for both large organisations and small PCBUs. The conversation touches on the real-world prosecutions that appear to have motivated the reform, including the White I...

en-au

13:31

Resilient Infrastructure, Risk & Adaptation Strategies

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2026/03/15

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss Resilient Infrastructure, Risk & Adaptation Strategies. Following their attendance at the recent forum hosted by Engineers Australia's Risk Engineering Society and the Institute of Strategic Risk Management they unpack the big questions it raised about resilient infrastructure. From Victorian bushfires to the Dreamworld tragedy, to Finland's invasion-proof subways, they ex...

en-au

12:43

To Grok or Not? Using AI for Risk Management &...

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2026/03/08

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis how AI in Risk Management? Richard begins with a deep-dive into how large language models work, and where they fall short. He explains why AI systems are sophisticated inference engines rather than true reasoning machines, and why that distinction matters enormously for high-stakes decision-making and risk management. The conversation covers the parallels between AI and Monte Carlo si...

en-au

12:18

SFAIRP: Moral Imperative vs Commercial Reality

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2026/03/01

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss this season’s theme of SFAIRP: Moral Imperative versus Commercial Reality and that SFAIRP is hard. They discuss the tension between the legal and moral weight of “so far as is reasonably practicable” and the commercial pressures organisations face every day, including: How SFAIRP is an objective test, but objective to whom, and determined when?Why leaving the "i" out of ...

en-au

13:38

Season 6 Wrap: SFAIRP Complexities

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/12/14

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis wrap up Season 6 and the theme of SFAIRP complexities. Key season highlights they revisit: Three essential components of SFAIRP: "As Far", "As Is", and “Reasonably Practicable”,Confusion around hierarchy of controls, Contradictions between WHS Legislation (OHS Act in Victoria) and planning and safety law.Watch out for 2026 for Season 7. For further information on Richard and Gaye...

en-au

12:41

Two Types of Regulators

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/12/07

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the two types of Regulators. They outline two fundamentally different regulatory philosophies: regulators who view prosecutions as a measure of success versus those who see them as a measure of failure. The discussion examines how the "so far as is reasonably practicable" (SFAIRP) framework has shifted the burden of proof, making it harder for some regulators to secure convict...

en-au

10:31

Psychosocial Hazards in the Workplace Regulations

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/12/01

In this special episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss psychosocial hazards in the workplace and the newly introduced Victorian Occupational Health and Safety (Psychosocial Health) Regulations 2025, which came into effect on 1 December. They explain that the new regulations largely re-states existing Occupational Health and Safety legislation requirements to identify, eliminate, and reduce such hazards as far as reasonably...

en-au

13:11

Breaking SFAIRP down to three parts: So Far (SF). As...

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/11/23

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis break down the concept of SFAIRP "So Far As Is Reasonably Practicable" into three key parts: "So Far", "As Is", and "Reasonably Practicable". This was one of their key take-aways from their recent Live Forum where lawyer Joseph Coleiro articulated the following: "So Far" refers to the notion of doing as much as possible to address a risk, rather than just meeting a target level of ris...

en-au

10:55

Formal Safety Assessments

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/11/16

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss Formal Safety Assessments. Key highlights include: A Formal Safety Assessment (FSA) is meant to provide a logical and reasoned argument that can withstand legal scrutiny.Formal Safety Assessments should identify the critical issues of concern, the current controls in place, and the further practical controls that could be considered, as well as the reasoning for implemen...

en-au

9:52

Safety Culture (Revisited)

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/11/09

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis revisit the topic of Safety Culture. They review the work of Professor Patrick Hudson, who identified five levels of safety culture, from pathological (who cares as long as we're not caught) to generative (safety is how we do business around here). Richard and Gaye observe that many organisations tend to be more reactive, focusing on implementing controls after incidents occur, rather...

en-au

9:03

Could vs Should in Workplace Safety

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/10/26

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss Could vs Should in Workplace Safety. (Thanks Nick for your email, case reference and questions.) They explore the critical distinction between what "could" have been done versus what "should" have been done in workplace safety, sparked by the SKM Services case against Magistrates Courts of Victoria, and discuss how experts often use hindsight to determine what could have preve...

en-au

12:43

Safety & Planning Law Complications

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/10/19

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the complications of Safety Legislation & Planning Law. Drawing on their extensive experience across multiple Australian jurisdictions—including Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland, and federal government projects—Richard and Gaye discuss the challenges engineers and designers face when navigating competing legislative requirements. They examine why Work Health an...

en-au

12:15

Safe Work Australia's Best Practice Review of Model...

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/10/12

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss Safe Work Australia's review of the model Work Health and Safety (WHS) Act & Regulations, and R2A’s submission response. Key points include: Contradictions between the WHS legislation, regulations, and common law requirements, particularly for designers and engineers. Concerns around the hierarchy of controls and how they are interpreted by regulators.Inconsist...

en-au

11:18

Rail Safety National Law Pressures & the SFAIRP Approach

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/10/05

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis answer a listener’s question on the Pressures of Rail Safety National Law and the SFAIRP Approach. They explain how WHS/OHS legislation takes precedence over the Rail Safety National Law, clarify the "no double jeopardy" principle, and discuss how Australia's federal system led to harmonised rail safety legislation. Their discussion also covers: The SFAIRP (So Far As Is Reasonably Pra...

en-au

11:57

SFAIRP Complexity & Pressures for Stakeholders

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/09/28

In this first episode of Season 6 of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the pressures and complexities different stakeholders are having with SFAIRP They follow on from the theme of Season 5, “Difficult Conversations Engineers Need to Have”, how it generated discussions and comments, and determined holding an in person event with speakers from different perspectives and professional backgrounds - a lawyer, an architect, and two e...

en-au

10:07

Preventing Criminal Manslaughter ~ Understanding &...

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/09/21

In this special episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis preview their upcoming live forum event on "Preventing Criminal Manslaughter - Understanding & Implementing SFAIRP (So Far As Reasonably Practicable)". The event will feature presentations from a lawyer, Joseph Coleiro, and an architect, Dr. Frank Stoks, along with the hosts Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis, with the focus on exploring the legal obligations and prac...

en-au

13:43

Season 5 Wrap on Difficult Conversations &...

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/05/31

In this final episode of Season 5, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis conclude their theme of difficult conversations engineers need to have as well as discuss Engineering for Communities. They explore how engineering should focus on improving rather than maintaining the status quo, and the concerning trend of engineers being sidelined in critical decision-making processes. The discussion includes: How councils and planning decisions have become "de-engineered"The...

en-au

12:14

Engineering Due Diligence - The confusion between...

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/05/25

In this episode of "Risk! Engineers Talk Governance," due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis revisit the fundamentals of engineering due diligence in response to listener feedback about confusion between risk, assurance and diligence. The discussion covers how R2A became specialised in due diligence engineering through their expert witness work, where they learned that due diligence serves as a defense against negligence with two key components: having reasonable control in...

en-au

9:57

How organisational silos impact due diligence across...

Risk! Engineers Talk Governance ·

2025/05/18

In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis tackle the growing problem of organisational silos and their impact on due diligence and explore how siloed thinking undermines efforts across various domains—from safety, projects and regulatory compliance. Drawing from decades of industry experience, Richard traces the evolution of risk engineering. They then discuss the need for integrating expertise across the entire organisation ...

en-au

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