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PODCAST

Decoding Taylor Swift

Joe Romm and Toni Romm

Decoding Taylor Swift will transform how you think about Swift’s songs. It will also teach you the storytelling tools Swift uses that make her a modern-day Shakespeare, but can make you a better communicator and help your content go viral, so you can drive your mission and build your tribe. Rolling Stone magazine put both Taylor and Joe on its list of “The 100 People Who Are Reinventing America.” On this podcast, Joe Romm and his daughter Toni will give you the life-changing tools to lead, connect,

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All Episodes

46:31

What do Taylor Swift, The Beatles & Springsteen have...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/12/16

Many critics think Wood, with all its sexual puns and double entendres, is somehow beneath Taylor. But they should lighten up. It’s a funny song. Also, Joe and Toni reveal how Taylor anticipated that critique, which is why the song alludes to The Beatles' Norwegian Wood and Bruce Springsteen's 'Dancing in the Dark', both of which have sexual double meanings. Indeed, lots of double meanings are a key reason Taylor is a modern-day Shakespeare.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

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44:40

The REAL meaning of Swift’s Wish List, what the...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/12/09

Wish List is the most misunderstood song on The Life of a Showgirl because too many people take too much of Taylor Swift’s fantasy literally. But Joe and Toni decode the deeper meaning and reveal one of Taylor’s most powerful storytelling strategies that you can use to become a better writer and speaker. Also, a huge shout out to our fans for our Spotify Wrapped naming us a “2025 Instant Hit Show” (more popular than 98% of other new shows), a “2025 Marathon Show” (our fans listened longer than 97%

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45:18

Decoding Actually Romantic and the Taylor...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/12/02

Actually Romantic is a funny and clever song. But it's also a diss track aimed at Charlie XCX, who herself put a song out about Taylor on her breakout 2024 Brat album, Sympathy is a Knife, which Charlie said was not a diss track. But Taylor clearly felt dissed, so we'll decode both of these songs to explain why, starting with Actually Romantic. In the end, we’ll see why Charlie might not have realized how much her song would piss off Taylor, but also why Actually Romantic might have benefited from a

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60:24

Revealed: Ruin the Friendship’s hidden connections to...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/11/25

Ruin the Friendship’s big mystery is why Taylor Swift put a High School heartbreaker on an album about the Eras Tour. Joe and Toni do a deep dive decoding the song’s meaning by explaining its crucial connections to The Fate of Ophelia and the teenage love triangle in Folklore. Then they explore why Taylor has so many haters with the help of former Cosmopolitan editor Amy Odell who hosts the fashion and pop-culture podcast 'Back Row with Amy Odell' (Apple Podcasts, Spotify).Learn more about your ad

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67:33

Why Eldest Daughter is NOT about Taylor Swift—and...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/11/11

Eldest Daughter may be the most controversial song on “The Life of a Showgirl.” Joe and Toni dive headfirst into the controversies about whether this song is too cringe, while raising the provocative question of whether this song is actually about Taylor Swift. And you won’t want to miss our fast-paced interview with New Yorker senior editor Tyler Foggatt who is Taylor fanatic.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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42:19

Taylor’s genius trick in Father Figure will blow your...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/11/04

One of Swift's biggest mysteries is why she has so many songs with bad or missing father figures, including many tracks on “The Life of a Showgirl.” In this must-see episode, Joe and Toni fully decode Father Figure, solve the mystery, and reveal one of Taylor’s most ingenious musical devices. They also explain the many illuminating connections between Father Figure and Getaway Car, one of Taylor’s fan favorite songs from Reputation.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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60:37

A Taylor Swift whiz helps us decode Opalite’s...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/10/28

Opalite does NOT mean what you think it does—as you’ll learn in this eye-opening episode. PLUS, we have a must-see interview with the brilliant Charlie Harding, a songwriter who co-hosts the award-winning hit podcast, Switched on Pop. The #2 song in America may seem like a simple bop, but in reality, it’s a complex lyrical gem that shines a whole new light on the album. And if you’ve ever wondered why Swift loves to work with Max Martin, Harding provides rare insight into the reclusive Swedish

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59:37

EXCLUSIVE! An Elizabeth Taylor expert helps us decode...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/10/22

Joe and Toni talk to Ben Mankiewicz, an expert on Liz Taylor and Cleopatra—who are both quintessential showgirls Swift is obsessed with. In the episode’s middle segment, the three discuss the many parallels between the two Taylors that Swift alludes to in the song. Ben is an amazing storyteller and host of the podcast The Plot Thickens whose latest season is on the ill-fated movie Cleopatra, which starred Liz and which his great-uncle Joseph directed and wrote. If you want to fully understand the

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54:15

How Decoding The Fate of Ophelia’s REAL Meaning...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/10/14

This episode will change how you think about Taylor’s entire album! Joe and Toni explain the real meaning of The Fate Of Ophelia— the #1 song in America AND the world—and how it is the key to decoding what Taylor called the “perfect puzzle” of the entire album. You’ll learn the real meaning of the music video and the remarkable parallels between the album’s first song and the final one, The Life of A Showgirl. Joe brings his expertise on Shakespeare to reveal the song’s unexpected origin and what

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45:17

Taylor Swift’s ‘Life of a Showgirl’: Ironic, Raunchy...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/10/06

Taylor promised on Travis’s New Heights podcast that the 12 songs on ‘The Life of a Showgirl’ would ‘fit together like a perfect puzzle.’ But her critics’ hot takes mostly miss this point and misfire. So, in Season 2, Joe and Toni will help you solve this puzzle by decoding the REAL meaning of each episode—the irony and karmic twists beneath the literal lyrics—ending with an epic reveal in the final episode on the title song. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you don’t miss a single

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46:09

What the Stunning Meaning of ‘Cardigan’...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/09/23

Taylor told Travis on his New Heights podcast that ‘The Life of a Showgirl’ will have the same kind of storytelling she used so movingly on Folklore. So, Joe and Toni decode her unforgettable hit song ‘Cardigan’—the heart of both the album and its teenage love triangle—to reveal Betty’s unexpectedly tragic fate. This episode will transform how you think about Folklore and may hold the key to decoding her new album when it drops on October 3.

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43:50

The Karmic Secret to Decoding ‘Life of a Show Girl’...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/09/16

If you want to fully decode Taylor’s new album dropping October 3, you’ll need to understand the 2 types of irony Taylor, Max Martin, and Shellback use in songs like “Shake It Off.” That #1 hit seems like a basic bop, but it’s not. Joe and Toni reveal how Taylor and her co-writers convey their true meaning by combining the first kind of irony—"when you mean what you say, but you don't say what you mean”—with the second kind, which is irony of fate, also known as poetic justice or karma. As Swift

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01:14:57

EXCLUSIVE improv preview of all 12 tracks of ‘The...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/09/09

A must-see episode that reveals all the pre-release secrets of “The Life of a Showgirl” you won’t hear anywhere else. Plus Toni sings (for the first time!) improvised previews of all 12 tracks. You’ll learn what Taylor and Ophelia have in common, plus everything we know about each song. Then Toni improvs her version of a verse, chorus or bridge for The Fate of Ophelia, Elizabeth Taylor, Opalite, Father Figure, Eldest Daughter, Ruin the Friendship, Actually Romantic, Wi$h Li$t, Wood, CANCELLED!,

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01:03:26

The Stunning Twist of Taylor's Tortured Poets...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/09/02

In this episode of Decoding Taylor Swift, Joe and Toni reveal the unforgettable reason Taylor is a tortured poet, which she encodes in the title track of The Tortured Poets Department. They take a deep dive into the lyrics, unpacking Swift’s rich use of allusion, irony, and hyperbole. They also break down Taylor’s viral two-hour sit-down on New Heights with Travis and Jason Kelce. But it's the stunning twist in TTPD that is the episode's centerpiece. From Dylan Thomas to Patti Smith to the Chelsea

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01:11:31

Hyperbole and Heartbreak | #9

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/08/26

In this episode of Decoding Taylor Swift, Joe and Toni dive headfirst into “Cruel Summer,” one of Taylor’s most beloved songs—and one drenched in hyperbole. They decode the fever dreams, Shakespeare nods, and lyrical exaggerations that make it one of her most powerful storytelling feats. It’s part song breakdown, part storytelling workshop, and 100% Taylor.

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01:05:12

Seeing 'Red': Why Metaphors Are the Most Important...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/08/19

Taylor Swift doesn’t just write songs. She writes modern-day allegories. In this episode, we crack open “Red,” one of Swift’s most metaphor-dense tracks, to uncover why metaphors aren’t just lyrical flourishes but memory tricks that make stories unforgettable. From Maseratis on dead-end streets to falling autumn leaves, Joe and Toni explore how Swift uses metaphors to tattoo emotions onto our brains.

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55:22

The Word Wizadry That Explains Taylor's First #1 Hit...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/08/12

It’s the breakup heard ‘round the world and the lyric that won’t leave your head: We Are Never Ever Ever Getting Back Together. But this isn’t just a catchy chorus. It’s a masterclass in how to make words unforgettable. In this episode of Decoding Taylor Swift, Joe and Toni break down the viral storytelling trick behind Taylor’s first #1 pop hit, why Jake Gyllenhaal probably still hears it in his sleep, and how you can use this same trick to make what you write go viral and what you say impossible

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52:49

The Trick That Makes Taylor's Blank Space a Memorable...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/08/05

Taylor Swift’s “Blank Space” isn’t just a pop masterpiece. It’s a storytelling clinic. In this episode of Decoding Taylor Swift, Joe and Toni dive into the art of antithesis—the rhetorical power of opposites that makes lines like 'Cause darling I’m a nightmare dressed like a daydream unforgettable. From invisible “buts” to Oscar Wilde to the timeless lessons of Martin Luther King Jr., Joe and Toni decode how Swift crafts tension, humor, and memorability in every lyric, and how you can use the same

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01:01:27

Taylor’s Top Storytelling Secret plus What But Daddy...

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/07/29

If you master Taylor’s one-word storytelling secret, you'll be better at writing, speaking, and making your content go viral online. This week, Joe and Toni reveal that one game-changing word— the beautiful ”but”—and the simple “cool rule” that the greatest storytellers use to maximize its power. “But” is the word that introduces conflict and tension in narratives, which is why Taylor suffuses her songs with the word. It’s the lyrical hinge between rebellion and regret, delusion and clarity. Joe and

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41:27

To Be or Not To Be a Mastermind | #4

Decoding Taylor Swift ·

2025/07/22

Why does Taylor start with “Once upon a time”? What does “scheming like a criminal” have to do with owning your power? And how can you use her approach to write and speak with precision, impact, and purpose? This week on Decoding Taylor Swift, Joe and Toni take on “Mastermind,” one of Taylor’s most lyrically complex and strategically structured songs, but this episode isn’t just about decoding a song. It’s about becoming the author of your own story.

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24 results

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