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PODCAST

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

The Gray Areawith Sean Illing takes a philosophy-minded look at culture, technology, politics, and the world of ideas.Each week, we invite a guest to explore a question or topic that matters. From the the state of democracy, to the struggle with depression and anxiety, to the nature of identity in the digital age, each episode looks for nuance and honesty in the most important conversations of our time. New episodes drop every Monday. From the Vox Media Podcast Network.

society & culture philosophy

All Episodes

39:35

How to be less neurotic

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/09/07

If you could change anything about your personality, anything at all, what would it be? And why would you want to change it?Writer Olga Khazan spent a year trying to answer those questions, and documented the experience in her new book Me, But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change. In this episode, which originally aired in March of 2025, Sean speaks with Olga about the science of personality change, the work it takes to change yourself, and what makes up a personality,

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44:19

Your body wasn’t built for a desk

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/09/04

We’ve all heard that "sitting is the new smoking," but the research behind that phrase goes much deeper. How bad is sitting for you really?In this episode guest host Bryan Walsh is joined by Manoush Zomorodi — host of NPR’s TED Radio Hour and author of Body Electric — to explore how our sedentary, screen-filled lives are reshaping our physical health from the neck down. Manoush shares findings from her own clinical trial, where she partnered with scientists to determine the minimum amount of

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51:16

Why we want to believe in aliens

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/31

Are we truly alone in the universe? Despite the lack of hard evidence, belief in aliens and UFOs, officially known as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP), has shifted from the fringes to the center of mainstream culture.In this episode of The Gray Area, host Jonquilyn Hill is joined by Adam Kirsch, senior editor at The Atlantic and author of the new book We Want to Believe: How Aliens Went Mainstream and Why It Matters. They explore why our fascination with extraterrestrial life persists and

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42:30

Straight dating isn’t broken

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/28

Have you noticed the bad vibes around dating lately? Whether you’re swiping on apps or scrolling through social media, it’s easy to feel like the romantic landscape has become a battleground — at least, for the heterosexual among us. This pervasive feeling of hopelessness and negativity — often called "hetero-pessimism" — is everywhere. But is this cynicism the actual picture, or is it just another digital trap?In this episode of The Gray Area, host Jonquilyn Hill is joined by Magdalene J. Taylor,

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49:29

Kidneys for sale

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/24

Is it ever okay to put a price on a kidney? Why is it illegal to sell an organ, but perfectly legal to sell blood plasma? This episode explores the world of "repugnant transactions" — the markets we find morally offensive — and asks why we ban certain markets as "gross" or "unethical" while ignoring others that might cause more harm.In this episode of The Gray Area, host Bryan Walsh sits down with Nobel laureate Alvin Roth, who wrote the recent book Moral Economics, to discuss how markets are the

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59:17

How memory changes you

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/21

We like to think of memory as a record of the past. But that’s not really what it is. Memory doesn’t keep the past — it can also remake it. It stitches fragments into stories, and those stories — true or not — are what we end up calling our life, and sometimes, our collective history.Today’s episode is a rerun of an interview that originally published last year with Charan Ranganath, a neuroscientist and author of a book called Why We Remember. The two discuss the strange alchemy of remembering

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58:48

Freud was right about one thing

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/17

Sigmund Freud is probably the most famous psychoanalyst. Yet many of his theories have been critiqued or discredited. So is there anything we can still learn from the father of psychoanalysis?In today’s episode Sean speaks with professor Mark Solms, author of The Only Cure: Freud and the Neuroscience of Mental Healing. Mark argues that while Freud may have been wrong about many things, he was right about one important thing: the human mind cannot be fully understood on purely biological terms. He

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57:48

Why straight dating feels bleak

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/14

The internet is rife with chatter about “heteropessimism,” the feeling that gender relations are broken and heterosexual relationships are doomed. But is this just cynical discourse, like a coping mechanism for bad dates? Or is this a symptom of a much deeper, systemic breakdown?In this episode of The Gray Area, guest host Jonquilyn Hill is joined by Sarah Jones, senior writer for The Intelligencer. Together, they peel back the performative irony to look at the harsh realities of dating in a

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51:41

We’re postliterate

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/10

What happens when we read less? What does that do to our ability to understand complex ideas, or even think for ourselves?In today’s episode, guest host Jonquilyn Hill speaks with Atlantic staff writer Rose Horowitch. In her recent cover story, Rose argues that we are entering a postliterate age. Although we’re surrounded by text — like emails, text messages, and notifications — we no longer have an interest in reading longer, book-length content.Jonquilyn and Rose discuss how the digital age has

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27:47

What does a parent owe their child?

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/07

The Gray Area is taking a short break this week — but we’ve got something special for you.We’re dropping an episode from one of our favorite podcasts, Unexplainable. In it, host Noam Hassenfeld and Vox senior reporter Sigal Samuel explore one of the biggest dilemmas facing growing families: How much should parents decide about their children’s future from prenatal testing alone? Noam and Sigal wrestle with the moral dilemmas surrounding genetic testing, parental choice, and the limitations of

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47:31

The vanishing pleasures of daily life

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/08/03

Sean talks with writer and philosopher Ian Bogost about his new book The Small Stuff. They discuss what modern life has lost in its pursuit of convenience, efficiency, and optimization. From stick shifts to coffee cups, lawnmowers, and smartphones, Bogost argues that many of the small sensory experiences that once connected us to the physical world have quietly disappeared.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling) Guest: Ian Bogost We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this

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41:03

How Google broke the internet

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/07/31

The internet is changing. For years our primary gateway to the internet has been search engines: we ask a question, a list of websites pops up, and we choose which ones to click on. But we are rapidly headed towards a different model, one in which AI-generated answers to our questions are our primary gateway to the internet. How we got here starts with Google.In today’s episode, guest host Miles Bryan interviews journalist Ryan Broderick to discuss “Google zero,” a point in time when Google stops

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43:38

The illusion of the ‘self’

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/07/27

Sean Illing talks with neuroscientist Gregory Berns, author of The Self Delusion. Berns claims that the idea of a unified, persistent self is a kind of illusion, and that we are better understood as multiple selves at different moments in time, tied together by a story — which is what we call our identity. Sean and Greg also talk about whether the brain is a computer, how perception works, the limits of thinking too much about thinking, and what psychedelics can do to disrupt and change the stories

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46:30

How MAGA is turning on itself

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/07/24

For years, right-wing influencers and politicians have pushed the conservative movement to have more controversial, anti-establishment views. Why are some of those figures now upset about where the movement has ended up?In today’s episode, guest host Bryan Walsh speaks with Vox Senior Correspondent Zack Beauchamp about conservatives who decry the extremist direction that the right is moving but refuse to recognize the role they played in pushing the movement in that direction. The two discuss US

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49:52

The global baby bust

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/07/20

Birth rates are dropping and global population growth is slowing. Why? We’re heard all the different speculation: It’s the economy. It’s housing costs. It’s the feminists. But what if the biggest driver is that thing we all carry in our pockets? In today’s episode, guest host Christine Emba speaks with data journalist John Burn-Murdoch about declining fertility rates across vastly different cultures and economies. They discuss the role smartphones might play in this phenomenon, why governments have

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44:48

Why public opinion turned on AI

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/07/17

AI was supposed to make our lives better. Instead, it’s made many of us scared and angry. Communities are protesting data centers across the country, and polling shows most Americans think AI is moving too fast.In today's episode, guest host Miles Bryan talks with independent journalist Jasmine Sun, who argues that public attitudes toward AI are undergoing a fundamental shift. Jasmine argues that AI is seen not simply as a technology to adopt, but as an elite political project to resist. The two

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51:57

A skeptic considers the case for God

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/07/13

Sean talks with writer Liz Bruenig about faith, doubt, and the experience of believing in God in a modern, skeptical age. They discuss religious experience, the limits of science, the appeal of cynicism, Dostoevsky, beauty, mystery, and whether belief is ultimately a choice. They also explore why religion persists and whether living with uncertainty is itself a form of faith. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling) Guest: Elizabeth Bruenig (@ebruenig) We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you

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43:18

The “Godzilla El Niño” is coming

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/07/10

Sean talks with journalist David Wallace-Wells about a looming climate event that could make 2027 one of the hottest years ever recorded. They discuss the return of El Niño, why some scientists are calling it a “Godzilla El Niño,” and what it could reveal about the future of global warming. They also explore climate adaptation, political complacency, extreme weather, technological progress, and whether humanity is prepared for the world it’s creating. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling) Guest: David

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46:33

The “real” America at 250

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/07/03

Who are America’s heroes? Who deserves our admiration and a place in our nation’s story? In today’s episode, guest host Jonquilyn Hill talks with constitutional law professor Kermit Roosevelt about his book The Nation That Never Was: Reconstructing America’s Story, which argues that America’s most important ancestors are not the founding fathers but the heroes of Reconstruction. The two discuss the importance of founding myths, why Americans are constantly fighting over “the real America,” and what

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47:37

How to fix America’s spiritual crisis

The Gray Area with Sean Illing ·

2026/06/29

Sean talks with Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy about the crisis lurking beneath America's political dysfunction. Murphy’s new book “Crisis of the Common Good” argues that the country is suffering from a collapse of connection, belonging, and purpose. They discuss loneliness, powerlessness, liberalism, democracy, Trumpism, corporate power, social media, and why so many Americans feel disconnected from their communities, their institutions, and each other. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling) Guest:

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