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PODCAST

Dark Night Podcast

Join tap dance artist Andrew Nemr and pastor Mike Freeman as they explore Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. This common human experience strips away what we use to orient ourselves in the world, often leaving us feeling lost and confused-but also inviting us to endure. These conversations were part of Andrew"s preparation for a 12-hour improvised tap dance performance. The podcast is part of the Dark Night Project presented by Nemr Institute and KalosWorks.org, made possible by

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All Episodes

01:04:22

After the Night: An Ending of Sorts…| Ep. 12

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/11/07

In this final episode, Andrew and Mike conclude their journey with an “unfinished ending.” Drawing on excerpts from the Old Testament’s Song of Songs , they explore how desire, delay, and detachment, are shaped by the stripping of the mantle, mortification, and the refusal to settle for comfort on our terms. Andrew’s insights from the 12-hour Dark Night Live performance and Mike’s description of a potter’s work offer further metaphor. Together they explore how bearing witness, persevering

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01:17:54

Climbing the Mystic Ladder: St. John of the Cross’ 10...

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/10/24

In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue through The Dark Night of the Soul (Book Two, Chapters 19–20). They reflect on St. John’s 10-step “mystic ladder” of divine love—from turn to burn—blending scripture, lived experience, and Andrew’s upcoming 12-hour overnight performance, Dark Night. Together they explore perseverance, the quiet work of desire, and how growth unfolds through trust, consistency, and showing up. Book II chapters 19-20 00:48 Discussing the Mystic Ladder of Divine Love01:22

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01:05:04

Descent Before Ascent: How Do We Trust the Hidden...

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/10/17

In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue through The Dark Night of the Soul (Book Two, Chapters 16–18). They reflect on John’s “secret, secure ladder” and what it means to be led where sight can’t go, when memory fades, senses are stilled, and understanding grows quiet. Through scripture and lived experience, they explore unknowing as a path of love, learning to trust God’s hidden guidance more than effort, explanation, or control. Book II chapters 16-18 00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night

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01:13:04

The Pace of Love: How Do We Learn to Move Slowly...

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/10/10

In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue their journey through The Dark Night of the Soul, exploring Book Two, Chapters 12-15. They reflect on the image of the Divine who moves slowly, at the pace of love not efficiency, and what it means to walk with such a God through stillness, silence, and surrender. Drawing from scripture, lived experience, and the rhythm of everyday life, they unpack the difference between spiritual striving and divine timing. Book II chapters 12-15 00:00 Introduction to The

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01:00:41

Between Sense and Spirit: How Do We Cross Without...

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/10/03

In this episode, Andrew and Mike press deeper into the dark night. Drawing on “hyperlinks” in the Bible between the book of Lamentations, the letter to the Corinthians, and the wilderness of Jesus’ temptation, they explore what it means to be a log thrown into the fire consumed so that love might be refined. Their conversation wrestles with surrender, endurance, and the paradox of active passivity: being carried more than striving, walking without sight, and trusting that in the process God is at

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01:13:59

The Fog of Unknowing: How Do We Walk Without Sight? |...

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/09/26

In this episode, Andrew and Mike dive into Book Two, Chapters 4–7 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. They explore themes of purgation, detachment, and the “poverty of spirit” that marks the threshold of transformation. Alongside scripture and lived stories, they wrestle with the experience of emptiness, aridity, and the dark fog that seems to blind the faculties of memory and desire. The conversation touches the stories of Jonah, Job, Jeremiah, and even jazz improvisation,

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01:05:48

Fortitude at the Gate: How Do We Stand Fast? | Ep. 6

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/09/19

In this episode, Andrew and Mike dive into St. John of the Cross’s teaching on the “dark night”— how dryness and emptiness can be the way of deepening love and union with the divine. Through personal stories and pastoral insight, they unpack the difference between active efforts and passive purifications, how to endure when praying feels numb, and practical ways to stay the course —examen, simple obedience, and quiet service—even in the darkness. Book II chapters 1-3 00:00 Introduction to The Dark

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01:02:28

The Threshold of the Spirit: How Do We Step Across? |...

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/09/12

In this episode, Andrew and Mike explore Jonah’s descent as a living metaphor for the Dark Night of the Soul. Drawing from scripture, Hebrew insights, and personal stories, they unpack themes of purgation, endurance, stripping away, and the tension between punishment and transformation. The conversation wrestles with what it means to be swallowed by darkness, where God is in those moments, and how surrender and the choice to endure open the way forward. Reading: Book I chapters 12-14 00:00

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01:05:58

The Path of Love and Endurance: What's the...

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/08/22

In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Pastor Mike Freeman dive into Chapter 11 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. They discuss the transformative process of enduring spiritual darkness and emptiness as a pathway to deepening love and union with God. Andrew shares his experiences with preparing for his 12-hour overnight performance, while Mike highlights the passive nature of spiritual growth and the significance of enduring through life's challenges.Reading: Book I Chapters

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01:14:27

Through the Gloom: How Do We Find Light? | Ep. 3

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/08/15

In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Mike Freeman continue their journey with Chapters 8–9 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross, delving into St. John of the Cross's concept of the Dark Night of the Soul and discussing Andrew's spiritual preparation for the presentation of Dark Night Live. They share personal reflections on sense deprivation, spiritual emptiness, and the importance of falling into aridity as it relates to the dark night of the soul.Reading: Book I Chapters

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00:57:07

Exploring the Dark Night: What is it? | Ep. 2

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/08/01

In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Mike Freeman continue their journey with Chapters 4–7 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross, exploring the hidden spiritual obstacles that are effectively stripped away in the Night – like spiritual pride and gluttony.Reading: Book I Chapters 4–7 00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast01:53 Greek Influences and Biblical References04:09 Sins of the Flesh vs. Sins of the Spirit05:21 Historical Anecdotes and Spiritual Lessons20:13 The Challenge of

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01:11:57

When the Darkness Comes: What Do You Do? | Ep.1

Dark Night Podcast ·

2025/07/24

In this episode of The Dark Night Podcast, tap dance artist Andrew Nemr and Pastor Mike Freeman delve into St. John of the Cross's 'Dark Night of the Soul.' They discuss the spiritual disorientation that occurs when the usual sources of comfort and orientation are stripped away, and how this experience, often misinterpreted as a negative one, can be a profound part of spiritual growth. Reading: Introduction, Prologue, and Book I Chapters 1-3 00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night

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