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PODCAST

The Education Gadfly Show

Thomas B. Fordham Institute

For more than 15 years, the Fordham Institute has been hosting a weekly podcast, The Education Gadfly Show. Each week, you’ll get lively, entertaining discussions of recent education news, usually featuring Fordham’s Mike Petrilli and David Griffith. Then the wise Amber Northern will recap a recent research study. For questions or comments on the podcast, contact its producer, Stephanie Distler, at sdistler@fordhaminstitute.org.

education politics

All Episodes

29:07

Can states build coherent early childhood systems? |...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2026/02/11

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, we’re joined by Elliot Regenstein, partner at Foresight Law + Policy and author of Readiness: Preparing State Early Childhood Systems for a Brighter Future, to talk about early childhood education and care—and why state systems are so often fragmented and hard to navigate. We discuss who makes key decisions, why coordination is so difficult, and what it would take to build more coherent early childhood systems going forward. Then, on the Research Minute...

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38:26

Success stories shouldn’t be a secret | Episode 1004...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2026/02/04

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, we’re joined by Karin Chenoweth, founder of Democracy and Education and author of Schools that Succeed, to talk about what she’s learned from years of visiting successful classrooms, schools, and districts across the country. We explore a deceptively simple question: Why don’t educators, policymakers, and researchers spend more time studying success? Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern highlights new evidence from New York City showing that sma...

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23:35

National School Choice Week: Why “school choice”...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2026/01/28

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, we’re marking National School Choice Week with a conversation with Shelby Doyle of the National School Choice Awareness Foundation. We talk about why the movement emphasizes school choice rather than educational choice—and whether the growing focus on education savings accounts is a good development for the movement. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern breaks down new evidence on how disability identification varies by student family income, ra...

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34:39

Education Savings Accounts: Boffo or bonkers? |...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2026/01/21

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, Mike Petrilli goes solo. After recently playing ESA skeptic at an international school choice conference, Mike walks through where he now stands on Education Savings Accounts—laying out the strongest arguments in their favor and explaining why he’s increasingly unconvinced the tradeoffs are worth it. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern highlights new research using Michigan data to examine what happens when students with disabilities switch fro...

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32:33

Is tutoring the next big thing? | Episode 1001 of The...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2026/01/14

This week, we’re joined by Liz Cohen, vice president of policy at 50CAN, to discuss her book, The Future of Tutoring. Mike and David ask her some tough questions on whether tutoring is worth the investment, and she provides some excellent answers. Then on the Research Minute, Amber highlights new evidence showing that students’ family background plays a key role not just in college major choice, but also in who goes on to graduate school and how earnings unfold over time. Recommended content:...

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39:19

An Education State of the Union | Episode 1000 of The...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2026/01/07

This week, we’re marking a major milestone—Episode 1,000 of The Education Gadfly Show. Instead of focusing on a single topic, we’re branching out for a big-picture conversation about the state of education policy—past, present, and future—with Rick Hess and Tom Loveless, the original co-host of the show and its very first guest. In particular, we wonder whether we were too pessimistic back in the No Child Left Behind era, why education outcomes and other social indicators turned south in the ...

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30:36

The good, the bad, and the best research of 2025 |...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/12/17

This week, Mike Petrilli looks back at the highs and lows of education reform in 2025 as we wrap up our final episode of the year. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith closes things out with a countdown of his top five studies of 2025—plus one bonus pick. Recommended content: Wonkathon 2025: What will make science of reading laws succeed? —Thomas B. Fordham Institute2025 Eddies —PIE NetworkWas 2025 a good year for education reform? —Michael J. Petrilli, SCHOOLEDHave you subscribed to ...

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29:07

Is the “college enrollment crisis” a myth? | Episode...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/12/10

This week, we’re joined by Matt Barnum, Chalkbeat’s Ideas editor, to unpack whether college enrollment is truly declining—or whether the national narrative has gotten ahead of the data. Then, on the Research Minute, Fordham’s new national research manager Brian Fitzpatrick highlights evidence from D.C. Public Schools showing that teacher monitoring improves instruction and student outcomes—especially for teachers under pressure to raise test scores. Recommended content: Is c...

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31:03

Moving from science of reading laws to science of...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/12/03

This week, we’re joined by Wonkathon winner Eric Tucker—CEO and president of The Study Group—to talk about his first-place entry on what it will take for the science of reading laws to succeed. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith highlights a study showing how much valuable information is lost when individual test questions are collapsed into a single score—and why states could produce better value-added measures by using the rich data they already collect. Recommended content...

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32:32

How AI is reshaping what kids need to learn | Episode...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/11/19

This week, Mike Petrilli returns for a solo episode to dig into artificial intelligence—not classroom tools or teaching tips, but the big-picture implications of AI for what students need to learn as work, citizenship, and even human flourishing rapidly evolve. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith highlights a study linking the recent rise in child labor violations to declining school attendance—especially among Black youth and students living on farms. Recommended content: A “Z...

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29:02

What’s at stake if federal oversight of IDEA weakens?...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/11/12

This week, we’re joined by longtime special education advocate Elizabeth Yancy Bostic to discuss what could happen for students with disabilities if federal oversight and enforcement of IDEA are scaled back. Drawing on more than two decades of experience supporting families, including her own, as they navigate services, Elizabeth explains why strong oversight matters and what is at risk for students and districts when those safeguards erode. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith shares...

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28:42

The leaky college pipeline for high-achieving,...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/11/05

This week, we’re joined by Ohio State’s Stéphane Lavertu, author of Fordham’s new study, The Leaky Pipeline: Assessing the college outcomes of Ohio’s high-achieving low-income students. The report examines the experiences of Ohio’s high-achieving, low-income—or “HALO”—students and finds that access to advanced learning opportunities plays a major role in whether they make it to four-year colleges. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith spotlights a decades-long British study that follow...

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31:15

The collapse of graduation standards | Episode 992 of...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/10/29

This week, Fordham’s President Emeritus Checker Finn joins the show to unpack a troubling trend—the collapse of graduation standards—and why it matters for every American student. Then, on David Griffith’s first Research Minute, a new study looks at the demographics of college applicants interested in teaching in America—and explores why some who enter similar “helping professions,” like nursing and social work, steer clear of the classroom. Recommended content: High school graduation s...

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36:31

Redesigning school staffing for student success |...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/10/22

This week, we’re joined by Bryan Hassel, co-president of Public Impact, to discuss how redesigning school staffing—through models like Opportunity Culture—can boost both teacher retention and student success. Then, on Adam Tyner’s final Research Minute, he shares a study on how ending compulsory religious education in German schools shaped students later in life—making them less religious, but more likely to work and earn higher incomes as adults. Recommended content: Opportunity Cultur...

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34:39

How the Left can learn to love gifted education |...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/10/15

This week, Mike Petrilli flies solo to discuss New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani’s proposal to eliminate gifted education in the early grades—and how progressives can be persuaded to champion advanced learning opportunities for all students. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam Tyner reviews a new study on how parental education shapes excellence gaps among students. Recommended content: How can we depolarize “gifted education”? —Michael J. Petrilli, SCHOOLEDBuilding a wider,...

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34:33

TFA, Gen-Z, and AI | Episode 989 of The Education...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/10/08

This week, Aneesh Sohoni, CEO of Teach for America, joins The Education Gadfly Show to discuss TFA’s impact in the classroom and beyond, why teaching is a compelling opportunity for Gen Z college graduates, what corps members are saying about AI in the classroom. Then, on a special Research Minute, Adam Tyner shares findings from Who’s on Board? School Boards and Political Representation in an Age of Conflict, Fordham’s brand new report by David Houston and Michael Hartney surveying sch...

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32:22

Beyond test scores: Debating how to measure school...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/10/01

This week, Fordham’s president emeritus Checker Finn and Laura Hamilton of the Center for Assessment join us for a polite debate on whether school quality should be judged by more than test scores. On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner unpacks a massive study of ten million students that tracks how gender gaps in math and reading develop from kindergarten through fifth grade—and what that means for the narrative about boys and school. Recommended content The mixed blessing of new school measures...

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39:30

Joyful classrooms, but zero public transparency:...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/09/24

This week, Chandler Fritz, author of Harper’s Magazine’s cover story The Homemade Scholar, shares what he discovered when teaching in an ESA-funded micro-school—including a lackluster curriculum but undeniably joyful kids. On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner unpacks California’s big school-spending surge—showing that despite major funding increases, starting teacher pay hasn’t risen and staffing levels have barely changed. Recommended content The Homemade Scholar —Chandler Fritz, Harper’s Maga...

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31:48

On the negative NAEP news, and the real reason screen...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/09/17

This week, Mike Petrilli digs into the latest NAEP results—and explores whether the rise of smartphones and social media might help explain them. It’s another solo episode, just Mike and the mic. On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner shares a new REACH study showing that school voucher programs have boosted private school enrollment by just 3 percent so far—but are already putting upward pressure on tuition. Recommended content The Best Takes on the Worst NAEP Scores Ever —Michael J. Petrilli, S...

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38:56

School choice, regulation, and Democrats’ defense of...

The Education Gadfly Show ·

2025/09/10

Ashley Jochim, principal at the Center on Reinventing Public Education and mom of four, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith on the Education Gadfly Show to continue our debate on private school choice and regulation. She also discusses how Democrats’ defense of public schools often clashes with families’ real experiences, and why clear, consumer-facing information is essential to making choice work. On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner highlights a new NBER study from Chicago showing t...

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