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PODCAST

Scaling Laws

Lawfare & University of Texas Law School

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation

government politics

All Episodes

57:40

Scaling Laws x AI Summer: Who Controls the Machine God?

Scaling Laws ·

2026/03/06

Alan Rozenshtein, associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota and research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, were joined by Dean Ball, senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation and author of the Hyperdimensional newsletter, and Timothy B. Lee, author of the Understanding AI newsletter, for a joint crossover episode of the Scaling Laws and AI Summer podcasts about the

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46:06

In Defense of Optimism with Packy McCormick

Scaling Laws ·

2026/03/03

Packy McCormick, founder ofNot Boringand Not Boring Capital, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss the power of narratives in tech, the intersection of investing and policy, and what it means to build frameworks for the future in an age of rapid technological change. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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46:02

The Pentagon Goes to War With Anthropic

Scaling Laws ·

2026/02/27

An impasse is coming to a head. The resolution is unknown. The Department of Defense hasmade clear that Anthropichas until 5:01pm ET today, February 27th, 2026, to permit its use of Claude for any lawful purpose. CEO Dario Amodei doubled down on his insistence that Anthropic tools should not be used for mass domestic surveillance or the operation of lethal autonomous weapons. The Pentagon's Spokesman agrees that such usage would indeed be unlawful and yet, the two parties cannot come to terms. If

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51:43

Can AI Make AI Regulation Cheaper?, with Cullen...

Scaling Laws ·

2026/02/24

Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Cullen O'Keefe, research director at the Institute for Law & AI, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, about their paper,"Automated Compliance and the Regulation of AI"(andassociated Lawfare article), which argues that AI systems can automate many regulatory compliance tasks, loosening the trade-off between safety and innovation in AI policy.The

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47:25

Claude's Constitution, with Amanda Askell

Scaling Laws ·

2026/02/20

Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, senior editor at Lawfare, spoke with Amanda Askell, head of personality alignment at Anthropic, aboutClaude's Constitution: a 20,000-word document that describes the values, character, and ethical framework of Anthropic's flagship AI model and plays a direct role in its training.The conversation covered how the constitution is used during supervised learning and reinforcement learning to shape Claude's behavior; analogies to

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54:35

Live from Ashby: Adaptive AI Governance with Gillian...

Scaling Laws ·

2026/02/17

Kevin Frazier sits down with Andrew Freedman of Fathom and Gillian Hadfield, AI governance scholar, at the Ashby Workshops to examine innovative models for AI regulation.They discuss:Why traditional regulation struggles with rapid AI innovation.The concept of Regulatory Markets and how it aligns with the unique governance challenges posed by AI.Critiques of hybrid governance: concerns about a “race to the bottom,” the limits of soft law on catastrophic risks, and how liability frameworks interact

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58:05

The Persuasion Machine: David Rand on How LLMs Can...

Scaling Laws ·

2026/02/10

Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, and Renee DiResta, associate research professor at Georgetown University's McCourt School of Public Policy and contributing editor at Lawfare, spoke with David Rand, professor of information science, marketing, and psychology at Cornell University.The conversation covered how inattention to accuracy drives misinformation sharing and the effectiveness of accuracy nudges; how AI chatbots can durably reduce conspiracy beliefs through evidence-based

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1:31:07

Alan and Kevin join the Cognitive Revolution.

Scaling Laws ·

2026/02/03

Nathan Labenz, host of the Cognitive Revolution, sat down with Alan and Kevin to talk about the intersection of AI and the law. The trio explore everything from how AI may address the shortage of attorneys in rural communities to the feasibility and desirability of the so-called "Right to Compute."Learn more about theCognitive Revolutionhere. It's our second favorite AI podcast! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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51:03

Is this your last "job"? The AI Economy With AEI's...

Scaling Laws ·

2026/01/27

Most folks agree that AI is going to drastically change our economy, the nature of work, and the labor market. What's unclear is when those changes will take place and how best Americans can navigate the transition.Brent Orrell, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, joins Kevin Frazier, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to help tackle these and other

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55:44

Rapid Response Pod on The Implications of Claude's...

Scaling Laws ·

2026/01/22

Jakub Kraus, a Tarbell Fellow atLawfare, spoke with Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Research Director atLawfare, and Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor atLawfare, about Anthropic's newly released "constitution" for its AI model, Claude.The conversation covered the lengthy document's principles and underlying philosophical views, what

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42:41

The Honorable AI? Shlomo Klapper Talks Judicial Use...

Scaling Laws ·

2026/01/20

Shlomo Klapper, founder ofLearned Hand, joins Kevin Frazier, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the rise of judicial AI, the challenges of scaling technology inside courts, and the implications for legitimacy, due process, and access to justice. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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51:48

How AI Can Transform Local Criminal Justice, with...

Scaling Laws ·

2026/01/13

Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Francis Shen, Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota, director of the Shen Neurolaw Lab, and candidate for Hennepin County Attorney.The conversation covered the intersection of neuroscience, AI, and criminal justice; how AI tools can improve criminal investigations and clearance rates; the role of AI in adjudication and plea negotiations; precision sentencing and individualized justice; the ethical concerns around AI bias, fairness,

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51:08

Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open...

Scaling Laws ·

2026/01/06

Ziad Reslan, a member of OpenAI’s Product Policy Staff and a Senior Fellow with the Schmidt Program on Artificial Intelligence, Emerging Technologies, and National Power at Yale University, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to talk about iterative deployment--the lab’s approach to testing and deploying its models. It’s a complex and, at times, controversial approach.Ziad provides the rationale behind iterative

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53:48

A Year That Felt Like a Decade: 2025 Recap with Sen....

Scaling Laws ·

2025/12/30

Connecticut State Senator James Maroney and Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, join Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenstein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, for a look back at a wild year in AI policy.Neil provides his expert analysis of all that did (and did not) happen at the federal level. Senator Maroney then examines what transpired

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43:03

Cass Sunstein on What AI Can and Cannot Do

Scaling Laws ·

2025/12/23

Alan Z. Rozenshtein, Lawfare senior editor and associate professor of law the University of Minnesota, speaks with Cass Sunstein, the Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard University, about his new book,Imperfect Oracle: What AI Can and Cannot Do. They discuss when we should trust algorithms over our own judgment, why AI can eliminate the noise and bias that plague human decision-making but can't predict revolutions, cultural hits, or even a coin flip—and, perhaps most importantly, when it

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53:51

AI Chatbots and the Future of Free Expression with...

Scaling Laws ·

2025/12/16

Renée DiResta, Lawfare contributing editor and associate research professor at Georgetown's McCourt School of Public Policy, and Alan Z. Rozenshtein, Lawfare senior editor and associate professor of law the University of Minnesota, spoke with Jacob Mchangama, research professor of political science at Vanderbilt University and founder of The Future of Free Speech, and Jacob Shapiro, the John Foster Dulles Professor of International Affairs at Princeton University.The conversation covered the

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56:12

Rapid Response on the AI Preemption Executive Order

Scaling Laws ·

2025/12/12

In this rapid response episode, Lawfare senior editors Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier and Lawfare Tarbell fellow Jakub Kraus discussPresident Trump's new executive order on federal preemption of state AI laws, the politics of AI regulation and the split between Silicon Valley Republicans and MAGA populists, and the administration's decision to allow Nvidia to export H200 chips to China.Mentioned in this episode:Executive Order: Ensuring a National Policy Framework for Artificial

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45:17

Graham Dufault on small businesses and navigating EU...

Scaling Laws ·

2025/12/09

Graham Dufault, General Counsel at ACT | The App Association, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore how small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) are navigating the EU's AI regulatory framework. The duo breakdown the Association's recent survey of SMEs, which included the views of more than 1,000 enterprises and assessed their views on regulation and adoption of AI.Follow Graham: @GDufault and ACT | The

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48:17

Caleb Withers on the Cybersecurity Frontier in the...

Scaling Laws ·

2025/12/02

Caleb Withers, a researcher at the Center for a New American Security, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss how frontier models shift the balance in favor of attackers in cyberspace. The two discuss how labs and governments can take steps to address these asymmetries favoring attackers, and the future of cyber warfare driven by AI agents.Jack Mitchell, a student fellow in the AI Innovation and Law

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51:48

A Startup's Perspective on AI Policy

Scaling Laws ·

2025/11/25

Andrew Prystai, CEO and co-founder of Vesta, and Thomas Bueler-Faudree, co-founder of August Law, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to think through AI policy from the startup perspective.Andrew and Thomas are the sorts of entrepreneurs that politicians on both sides of the aisle talk about at town halls and press releases. They’re creating jobs and pushing the technological frontier. So what do they want AI

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204 results

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