PODCAST

Untangled

Charley Johnson

Untangled is a podcast about technology, people, and power. untangled.substack.com

technology

All Episodes

48:13

The Universe Called. It Says Your Theory of Change Is...

Untangled ·

2025/11/09

If you’ve sensed a shift in Untangled of late, you’re not wrong. I’m writing a lot more about ‘complex systems.’ To name a few:* What even is a ‘complex system’ and how do you know if you’re in one.* How to act interdependently and do the next right thing in a complex system.* Why if/then theories of change that assume causality are bonkers — and how to map backward from the future.* How do you act amidst uncertainty — if you truly don’t know how your system will respond to your intervention, what

64:22

"Autonomy or Empire"- Rethinking What AI Is For

Untangled ·

2025/11/02

This week, I spoke with Harry Law, Editorial Lead at the Cosmos Institute and a researcher at the University of Cambridge, about AI and autonomy. Harry wrote a terrific essay on how generative AI might serve human autonomy rather than the empires Big Tech is intent on building.In our conversation, we explore:* What the Cosmos Institute is — and how it’s challenging the binary, deterministic thinking that dominates tech.* The difference between “democratic” and “authoritarian” technologies — and why

36:35

'Be Curious, Not judgmental' or What AI Critics Get...

Untangled ·

2025/10/12

Today, I’m sharing the 15-minute diagnostic framework I use to assess an organization’s capacity to navigate uncertainty and complexity. Fill out this short survey to get access.The diagnostic is just one tool of 30+ included in the Playbook that will help you put the frameworks from my course immediately into practice. This one helps participants see how their current assumptions, decision structures, and learning practices align (or clash) with the realities of complex systems — and identify

48:42

"Empire of AI" w/Karen Hao

Untangled ·

2025/06/29

Today, I’m sharing my conversation with Karen Hao, award-winning reporter covering artificial intelligence and author of NYT bestseller, Empire of AI. We discuss:* The scale-at-all cost approach to AI Big Tech is pursuing — the misguided assumptions and beliefs it rests upon, and the harms it causes.* How the companies pursuing this approach represent a modern-day empire, and the role narrative power plays in sustaining it.* Boomers, doomers, and the religion of AGI.* Alternative visions of AI that

8:20

There’s no such thing as ‘fully autonomous’ agents

Untangled ·

2025/04/06

I’m Charley Johnson, and this is Untangled, a newsletter and podcast about our sociotechnical world, and how to change it. Today, I’m bringing you the audio version of my latest essay, “There’s no such thing as ‘fully autonomous agents.’ Before getting into it, two quick things:1. I have two part essay out in Tech Policy Press with Michelle Shevin that offers a roadmap for how philanthropy can use the current “AI Moment” to build more just futures.2. There is still room available in my upcoming

42:37

Is tech a religion? Is Elon Musk a hungry ghost?

Untangled ·

2025/01/05

Today, I’m sharing my conversation with Greg Epstein, American Humanist chaplain at Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and author of the great new book Tech Agnostic: How Technology Became the World’s Most Powerful Religion, and Why It Desperately Needs a Reformation. We discuss:* How tech is becoming a religion, and why it’s connected to our belief that we’re never enough.* How Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, and Bill Gates are hungry ghosts. * What

35:29

Can we democratize AI?

Untangled ·

2024/12/20

Today, I’m sharing my conversation with Divya Siddarth, Co-Founder and Executive Director of the Collective Intelligence Project (CIP) about how we might democratize the development and governance of AI. We discuss:* The CIP’s work on alignment assemblies with Anthropic and OpenAI — what they’ve learned, and why in the world a company would agree to increasing public participation.* The #1 risk of AI as ranked by the public. (Sneak peek: it has nothing to do with rogue robots.)* Are participatory

29:55

Building healthy local communities online & off

Untangled ·

2024/12/15

Today, I’m sharing my conversation with Deepti Doshi, Co-Director of New_Public about what they’ve learned building local healthy communities, online and off. We discuss:* The problem New_Public is trying to address with their initiative, Local Lab. (Which I highlighted in my recent essay, “Fragment the media! Embrace the shards!”)* What Deepti has learned about what makes for pro-social conversations that build community on messaging boards and private groups.* Why it’s an oxymoron to call Twitter

31:36

Block, build, be

Untangled ·

2024/12/08

This week, I’m sharing my conversation with Anya Kamenetz, the creator of The Golden Hour, a newsletter about “thriving and caring for others on a rapidly changing planet. Anya and I announced a new partnership recently — now, when you sign up for an annual paid subscription to Untangled, you’ll get free access to the paid version of The Golden Hour — and we wanted to talk about it, and the work ahead.Along the way, we also discuss:* How we’re adapting our newsletters in response to the election.*

41:47

Is AI snake oil?

Untangled ·

2024/11/24

Hi, I’m Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter about our sociotechnical world, and how to change it.* Come work with me! The initiative I lead at Data & Society is hiring for a Community Manager. Learn more here.* Check out my new course, Sociotechnical Systems Change in Practice. The first cohort will take place on January 11 and 12, and you can sign up here.* Last week I interviewed Mozilla’s Jasmine Sun and Nik Marda on the potential of public AI, and the week prior I shared my conversation

39:40

The potential of public AI

Untangled ·

2024/11/17

Hi, I’m Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter about our sociotechnical world, and how to change it.* Untangled crossed the 8,000 subscriber mark this week. Woot!* Come work with me! The initiative I lead at Data & Society is hiring for a Community Manager. Learn more here. * Last week, I shared my conversation with award-winning AI reporter Karen Hao on OpenAI’s mythology, Meta’s secret, and Microsoft’s hypocrisy.* I launched my new course, Sociotechnical Systems Change in Practice. The

35:52

OpenAI’s mythology, Meta’s secret, and Microsoft’s...

Untangled ·

2024/11/10

Hi, I’m Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter about our sociotechnical world, and how to change it.* Last week, I argued that the shared reality that the U.S. has long glorified was predominantly white and male, and historically, fragmentation has proven to be a good thing.* I launched my new course, Sociotechnical Systems Change in Practice. The first cohort will take place on January 11 and 12, and you can sign up here. (As you’ll see, I’ve decided to offer a free 1:1 coaching session to

32:01

A world overrun by AI agents w/Evan Ratliff

Untangled ·

2024/09/08

Hi, it’s Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter about technology, people, and power. Today, I’m sharing my conversation with Evan Ratliff, journalist and host of Shell Game, a funny and provocative new podcast about “things that are not what they seem.” Evan cloned his voice, hitched it to an AI agent, and then put it in conversation with scammers and spammers, a therapist, work colleagues, and even his friends and family. Shell Game helps listeners see a li’l farther into a future overrun

47:09

I turned 40 this week.

Untangled ·

2024/08/18

Hi, it’s Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter about technology, people, and power.Can’t afford a subscription and value Untangled’s offerings? Let me know! You only need to reply to this email, and I’ll add you to the paid subscription list, no questions asked.I turned 40 this week and I spent the weekend in nature, surrounded by my favorite people. While my cup is running over with friendship, love, and support, I’ll always take more 🤣. You can celebrate me and my next trip around the sun

47:29

AI is a mirror. What can it show us?

Untangled ·

2024/08/14

Hi, it’s Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter about technology, people, and power.This week I’m sharing my conversation with Shannon Vallor, the Baillie Gifford Chair in the Ethics of Data and Artificial Intelligence at the Edinburgh Futures Institute (EFI) at the University of Edinburgh. Vallor and I talk about her great new book, The AI Mirror: Reclaiming Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking, and how to chart a new path from the one we’re on. We discuss:* The metaphor of an ‘AI

37:00

🎧 AI needs a new philosophy of product development.

Untangled ·

2024/07/17

Hi, it’s Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter about technology, people, and power.Last week, I published an essay about what humans can do that AI systems cannot. One such thing? Meaning making! So what would it look like to put meaning-making at the center of AI product development? That’s the conversation I had with Vaughn Tan, professor at University College London’s School of Management, who writes the great newsletter The Uncertainty Mindset. We discuss:* What’s at stake in shifting the

32:07

👀 Can AI actually help you grieve?

Untangled ·

2024/06/19

Hi, it’s Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter and podcast about technology, people, and power.Can’t afford a subscription and value Untangled’s offerings? Let me know! You only need to reply to this email, and I’ll add you to the paid subscription list, no questions asked. 👇 ICYMIJune has been all about death, loss, grieving, and AI: * I interviewed Tamara Kneese, author of the book Death Glitch: How Techno-Solutionism Fails Us in This Life and Beyond about what happens online when we die.*

35:51

What happens online when we die?

Untangled ·

2024/06/09

Hi, it’s Charley, and this is Untangled, a newsletter and podcast about technology, people, and power.👇 ICYMIIn the last month:* I published an essay about how AI might alter loss, grieving, and our ability to move forward. (If you haven’t read it yet, you have until the end of the day before it pops behind a paywall.)* I interviewed Louis Barclay, the creator of Unfollow Everything — the tool at the center of a new lawsuit against Meta that could change the internet as we know it.* I published an

24:14

🎧 Unfollow your friends!

Untangled ·

2024/05/19

Last week, I analyzed a new lawsuit brought by University of Massachusetts Amherst professor Ethan Zuckerman and the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University. The lawsuit would loosen Big Tech’s grip over our internet experience if successful. In this conversation, I’m joined by , the creator of the tool Unfollow Everything, which is at the center of the lawsuit. Louis and I discuss:* What it’s like to be bullied by a massive company;* Why this lawsuit would be so consequential for

36:10

Elise Hu on pretty privilege, appearance labor, and...

Untangled ·

2023/09/24

Y’all are in for a treat — this week I interviewed for the podcast edition of Untangled. Elise is a journalist, podcaster, and entrepreneur. She is the host of TED Talks Daily, a host-at-large for NPR, co-founder of the podcast production company Reasonable Volume, and she reports for VICE News. Her book, Flawless: Lessons in Looks and Culture from the K-Beauty Capital is fantastic, and it inspired my recent essay “The Artificial Gaze.”Guess what? For the first three people to sign up for an annual

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