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PODCAST

Upzoned

Sometimes, a hot new story will cross our desks that we need to talk about right away. That"s where Upzoned comes in. Join Strong Towns President Chuck Marohn, Carlee Alm-LaBar, Norm Van Eeden Petersman, and other guests to talk in depth about one big story from the week in the Strong Towns conversation, right when you want it: now.

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All Episodes

44:17

The $600K Snow Budget That Became a $6 Million Problem

Upzoned ·

2026/04/08

A Massachusetts town budgeted $600,000 for snow and ended up spending $6 million clearing its streets. Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Daniel Herriges, and Gracen Johnson trace the links between winter operations, stormwater, supply chains, labor, and land use in cities facing serious snow. Starting with Boston’s overrun numbers, they widen the lens to Ottawa’s snow storage sites and Minneapolis’ potholes, asking what happens when seasonal extremes collide with tight city budgets.ADDITIONAL SHOW

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46:17

What LA’s Trash Problem Reveals About Its Streets

Upzoned ·

2026/04/01

While Los Angeles gets ready for the Olympics and World Cup, residents watch trash pile up in the places tourists never see. Chuck, Norm, and Carlee trace the links between auto‑oriented growth, a strained city budget, and basic services that can’t keep up. Through one neighborhood organizer’s Saturday cleanups, they show how garbage exposes which streets are truly cared for.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Talking Trash" by Alissa Walker, Torched.la (February 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Norm Van Eeden

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50:14

Why a Legal Home Addition Sparked Outrage in Fairfax...

Upzoned ·

2025/12/17

A multigenerational home addition sparked national attention and local outrage in Fairfax County, Virginia. Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt sits down with guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman to explore why legally allowed housing can still feel deeply disruptive — and what this reveals about zoning, design, and incremental change.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Massive Multigenerational Home Addition Sparks Furious Debate in Virginia Community" by Julie Taylor, Realtor.com (November 2025) "The

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56:16

Zoning Reform Is Only Step 1 in Fighting the Housing...

Upzoned ·

2025/12/10

Utah wants to override local zoning to boost housing supply, but allowed by right doesn't mean possible in practice. Abby and Edward dig into the hidden barriers — complicated permits, scarce financing, and broken systems — that stop housing from actually getting built.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Utah’s Governor Suggests Overriding Local Zoning. Could His Plan Solve—or Shatter—the State’s Housing Future?" by Allaire Conte, Realtor.com (November 2025) "Why State Housing Reform is Failing (and What We

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43:32

What Happens When Official Decisions Clash With...

Upzoned ·

2025/12/03

Who decides when community traditions change? Lafayette, Louisiana, recently rerouted its Mardi Gras parade. The goal was to improve public safety, but the change left neighborhoods, businesses, and long-standing customs in the lurch.Guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman sits down with Lafayette resident and former city staffer Carlee Alm-LaBar to explore how communities can navigate change while respecting culture and shared ownership. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Residents, krewes, downtown businesses

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51:42

How To Fix Washington DC's New Rules for Outdoor Dining

Upzoned ·

2025/11/26

Last week, we heard how DC's outdoor dining regulations threaten local businesses. Today, urban designers Abby Newsham and Edward Erfurt explore how DC could course-correct. They share creative ways that cities can maintain safety while supporting local businesses and even improving the design of their streets.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "After five years, D.C. streateries hit with higher costs and more rules" by By Tim Carman and Rachel Weiner, The Washington Post (November 2025) Painting of a food

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30:04

DC Is Charging Thousands for Outdoor Dining. Is This...

Upzoned ·

2025/11/19

Washington DC is charging restaurants thousands of dollars to keep their streateries — outdoor dining areas built during Covid-19. Are these fees fair compensation for public space, or will they kill the local businesses they were meant to save?Guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman dives into this question with Carlee Alm-LaBar, a former city official who helped bring streateries to her own city. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "After five years, D.C. streateries hit with higher costs and more rules" by By

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56:07

5 Ways Ordinary People Are Making Their Places Stronger

Upzoned ·

2025/11/12

Abby is joined by Carlee Alm-LaBar, the chief of staff for Strong Towns, and John Reuter, advisory board member for Strong Towns. They discuss several stories of people across the country taking action to make their communities better, from building houses to painting curbs.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES It's Member Week at Strong Towns! Join the movement today! Read more: Strong Towns San Diego - Curb Chalking Monte Anderson - Roommate House Strong Towns Langley - Baffle Gates Strong Towns Blono - Design

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50:26

Will Elon Musk's Data Centers Actually Help Memphis?

Upzoned ·

2025/11/05

Elon Musk's company xAI is building massive data centers in Memphis, promising economic transformation. But at what cost? Abby is joined by Strong Towns Blog Editor and podcast host Asia Mieleszko to dissect the billion-dollar AI infrastructure boom and explore why cities keep falling for "shiny object urbanism."ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES Hear more from Asia on the brand-new podcast Stacked Against Us! "Elon Musk Gambles Billions in Memphis to Catch Up on AI" by Alexander Saeedy, The Wall Street

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23:30

Historic Bridge Battle: Will 1 Town Profit While the...

Upzoned ·

2025/10/29

Two towns, two states, and two historic bridges that nobody wants to pay for. Brattleboro, Vermont, wants to reactivate two historic bridges with a pedestrian greenway. Hinsdale, New Hampshire, worries about increased crime and being saddled with the majority of maintenance costs while getting fewer returns. Abby and Norm discuss this dilemma, comparing it to similar bridge projects and identifying possible next steps for activating this underutilized infrastructure.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Can Two

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37:39

When a Town's Biggest Taxpayer Becomes Its Biggest...

Upzoned ·

2025/10/22

What do you do with 720,000 square feet of dead mall? Towns across America are struggling to find the answer as their malls shut down, leaving budget craters and infrastructure nightmares in their wake. Abby is joined by Carlee Alm-LaBar, Strong Towns' chief of staff and a former city staffer, to explore whether the answer is a grand redevelopment plan — or thinking radically smaller.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “A Town's Single Largest Taxpayer Is Also Its Biggest Headache” by Jim Zarroli, The New York

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47:21

2 Towns, 2 Responses to the Housing Crisis. Which...

Upzoned ·

2025/10/15

Littleton, Colorado, wants to ban everything other than single-family homes. The neighboring town of Lakewood wants to allow more housing variety. Norm and Abby dive into what's driving these radically different responses to the housing crisis and what happens when cities try to exempt themselves from change.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Two Denver Suburbs Take Different Paths as Residents Face Housing Crunch: We Can Manage It, but Just Barely.” by John Aguilar, The Denver Post (October 2025). Abby

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60:44

Public Transit Will Collapse in a Year. Should We...

Upzoned ·

2025/10/08

By the end of 2026, many U.S. cities could see large parts of their public transit systems crumble under a lack of federal funding and a development pattern that was never designed to support it. In this episode, Chuck Marohn and Abby Newsham explore why transit can’t survive as a charity and how localized funding and smarter land use could create systems that actually work.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES On October 24, Chuck will join the author of today's article, Jarrett Walker, for a member-exclusive

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47:14

LA Just Avoided 1600 Layoffs. Is That a Good Thing?

Upzoned ·

2025/10/01

The city of Los Angeles recently announced that it saved 1,600 jobs that were at risk of being cut to balance its $1 billion budget deficit. But did it actually fix anything, or is it just shuffling money around to hide the problem? What role do unions play? And what should cities actually do when facing a major budget deficit?Strong Towns Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt dives into these questions with guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman in this episode of Upzoned. ADDITIONAL SHOW

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29:49

Tulsa Offers Remote Workers $10K To Move. Is It...

Upzoned ·

2025/09/24

The Tulsa Remote program pays remote workers $10,000 to relocate to Tulsa for a year. A study found that, for every dollar spent, Tulsa sees $4.31 in economic benefits, including increased local spending, tax revenue, and job creation. Abby is joined by John Pattinson, Strong Towns’ community builder, discuss whether this kind of program is a smart way to boost the local economy.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “The Economic Benefits of Paying Workers to Move” by Rthvika Suvarna and Fola Akinnibi, Bloomberg

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46:30

Housing Supply Is About to Exceed Demand. Now What?

Upzoned ·

2025/09/17

As baby boomers downsize, relocate, or pass away, millions of homes are projected to rejoin the housing market by 2030, potentially exceeding housing demand by 1 million homes. In today's episode, Chuck and Abby discuss how generational shifts affect the housing market, what an excess of supply could mean for cities' financial stability, and how a simple "build, build, build" mindset could cause serious problems down the line.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Forget YIMBY. The housing shortage could

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40:26

Can a Tax on House Flipping Stop Canada's Housing...

Upzoned ·

2025/09/10

For years, investors and speculators shaped Canada's housing market. But now, people who actually live in those homes are beginning to have more influence. Today, Abby is joined by Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Strong Towns' director of membership and a Canadian, to discuss how this shift happened, how it'll affect Canada's housing market, and the implications for the rest of North America.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “End-users, rather than investors, expected to drive Vancouver housing market higher” by

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56:00

How Mortgage Fraud Makes the Housing Market More...

Upzoned ·

2025/09/03

Several high-profile members of the government have been accused of committing mortgage fraud recently, including Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton and Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook. Today, Chuck and Abby explore how mortgage fraud distorts the housing market, why it happens so frequently — and why no one in the financial system is interested in stopping it.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Ken Paxton Claimed Three Houses as His Primary Residence, Records Show” by Pooja Salhotra, The New York Times

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40:12

Are Sponge Cities the Flood Control Fix We Need?

Upzoned ·

2025/08/27

Join Abby and guest John Pattison as they dive into the benefits and drawbacks of "sponge cities," cities that incorporate natural features like wetlands into their stormwater management infrastructure. Is this method more resilient in the long term? Do the benefits outweigh the massive cost? How does this relate to the incremental, bottom-up approach? They’ll cover all this and more in today’s episode of Upzoned.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “‘Sponge City’: Copenhagen Adapts to a Wetter Future” by Paul

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44:33

Why Data Center Electricity Use "Scares Me to the Bone"

Upzoned ·

2025/08/20

Data centers power everything from cloud computing to artificial intelligence, and they use a massive amount of electricity, sometimes even rivaling major cities. Watchdogs claim that tech companies aren’t absorbing the costs of this electricity use, causing rate payers’ electricity bills to spike as they’re forced to subsidize these data centers. Today, Edward and Abby discuss the far-reaching implications of this kind of land use.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “As electric bills rise, evidence mounts

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