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The Plato Paradigm

Ivor Ludlam

What Plato Dramatized

society & culture philosophy

All Episodes

14:01

0236 Lysis 217c

The Plato Paradigm ·

2026/02/06

A lesson in sophistry. We also learn that Menexenus had brown hair.

14:01

0235 Lysis 217a

The Plato Paradigm ·

2026/01/30

Socrates argues sophistically for the position that what is neither good nor bad is dear to, or conversely a friend of (slipping between philon with dative and genitive), the good. He uses as his example a body, per se neither good nor bad, which with health has no need of a physician, but with disease is required to welcome and be dear to the physician. Socrates tries several formulations designed to wake the boys up from their mental slumber, but without success. It would seem that Socrates is

14:01

0234 Lysis 216d

The Plato Paradigm ·

2026/01/23

Socrates reminds Menexenus that the previous argument has led them to conclude that the friendly is not of like to like or of opposite to opposite, and he proposes that it is neither of like or of opposite. He needs to resort to a particular characteristic to exemplify what he means, and he chooses the good, a characteristic which has already been used in the argument. They settle on the friendly being of the neither-good-nor- bad to the good. Menexenus is clearly unable to remember that it had been

14:01

0233 Lysis 216d

The Plato Paradigm ·

2026/01/16

With Lysis, Socrates concluded that the friend is not of like to like. With Menexenus, Socrates has concluded that the friend is not of opposite to opposite. It would seem reasonable, then, to suggest that the friend is the good to the neither good nor bad. It is actually not all that reasonable.

14:01

0232 Lysis 216b

The Plato Paradigm ·

2026/01/09

Having argued with Lysis that the friendly is not friendly to its like, and with Menexenus that the friendly is not friendly to its opposite, Socrates proposes (still with Menexenus) what might seem to be an uneristic and therefore more plausible solution, that the friendly is friendly to something between the two extremes.

14:01

0231 Lysis 215d

The Plato Paradigm ·

2026/01/02

Socrates continues to develop a highly provocative position he claims to have heard from someone clever, that the most opposite is most friendly to the most opposite, apparently contradicting the earlier claim that like is friendly to like. Menexenus takes over the conversation from Lysis, and Socrates returns to eristics.

14:01

0230 Lysis 215c

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/12/26

Socrates provides only an argument from authority for his outrageous claim not only that the same are hostile to the same, but that most hostile are good people to good people. Even the argument from authority is problematic since Socrates deliberately misquotes two of the most famous lines of the poet Hesiod. We might almost suspect that he is looking for a reaction from his interlocutors.

14:01

0229 Lysis 215a

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/12/19

Socrates continues to try to make Lysis think dialectically, but fails miserably. Lysis accepts that the same is useless and not a friend to the same, although the good person is a friend to the good person (this is a contradicton), Once again, it is Socrates himself who has to discover that they have been seriously misled (they have, by him), and he adduces someone who is said to have claimed that the same thing to the same thing, and the good people to the good people, are actually hostile

14:01

0228 Lysis 214d

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/12/12

Socrates leads Lysis by the nose, and Lysis does not object. Socrates "interprets" the poet and the physikoi as claiming that only the similar to the simlar are friends, but if those who are dissimilar in themselves are bad, this means that only the good are friends. Since this doesn't cause Lysis to object, Socrates adds another problem, that the similar add nothing useful to the similar; if another adds nothing useful to oneself, why would one love such a person? The verb phileo (I love) is

14:01

0227 Lysis 214b

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/12/05

If like is friendly to like, what are we to make of bad people?

14:01

0226 Lysis 213e

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/11/28

The previous section featured a discussion between Socrates and Menexenus asking whether the friend is the loving or the loved. Socrates changes the subject with Lysis to consider whether friends are similar people or opposites,

14:01

0225 Lysis 213b

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/11/21

What was supposed to be an eristic debate designed to embarrass Menexenus turns into an intriguing discussion on friends which leads Lysis to intervene spontaneously and much to his own embarrassment. This is yet again a clear example of Socrates talking to one interlocutor (Menexenus) while his eye is on another (Lysis, and we should not forget Hippothales, although I don't mention him this time).

14:01

0224 Lysis 213a

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/11/14

Treating philos as the beloved friend leads to problems easily demonstrated by Ancient Greek usage.While we do not use Ancient Greek, the underlying problems are common to all.

14:01

0223 Lysis 212d

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/11/07

What was supposed to be an eristic debate has turned into a semi-philosophical enquiry into the nature of a philos ("friend"), being the one who loves or the one being loved, or whether the partners in such a relationsihp in which only one loves are both friends or both not friends. Socrates exploits to confusing effect an ambiguity in the word philos, which as an adjective (its original usage) is passive ("beloved") but as a nount is the ambiguous "friend".

14:01

0222 Lysis 212a

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/10/31

Socrates begins what should be an eristic debate. There are some attempts to make it look like an eristic debate, but the options provided allow Menexenus to avoid choosing one or other extreme, and the result of the questioning so far is no more than puzzlement over the identify of a friend in a friendship. If one loves, is the lover the friend, or the one loved, or both, or neither? Socrates also confuses love with lust, presumably for the benefit of Hippothales who is still listening.

14:01

0221 Lysis 211e

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/10/24

Lysis asked Socrates to beat Menexenus in eristic debate, but instead, Socrates declares that he is desirous of acquiring a friend or companion, far more than acquiring a quail, a rooster, a horse and dog, the wealth of Darius, or even Darius himself. He claims to have no friends, while Menexenus is the expert on friendship since he and Lysis are such good friends.

14:01

0220 Lysis 211c

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/10/17

Socrates seems to be going ahead with Lysis' request to beat Menexenus in eristic debate. He is taking time to set it up, ensuring that he appears to be the underdog, pretending to complain that Menexenus is sitting with his "teacher" Ctesippus, his slightly older cousin. He also ensures that Menexenus will be the one answering questions, the best way to guarantee eristic victory. At one point in the episode I say that Socrates is not an eristician although he is expert in the use of eristic

14:01

0219 Lysis 211a

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/10/10

Lysis and Socrates continue to whisper to each other, and Lysis turns the future conversstion away from himself into an eristic match to defeat his friend Menexenus.

14:01

0218 Lysis 210e

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/10/03

Hippothales, hiding close to Lysis and Socrates, becomes the focus of attention. It is unusual in a Platonic dialogue for a non-participant in a conversation to be noticed during the conversation. Socrates even states what he would have said to Hippothales had he made the mistake of speaking out loud. In orher news, Menexenus returns to the conversation.

14:01

0217 Lysis 210c

The Plato Paradigm ·

2025/09/26

Socrates uses the answers of Lysis himself to prove (albeit sophistically) that Lysis shouldn't complain about his lowly status iin crafts where he is incompetent, It is not claer to me that Lysis had been complaining about this, since he had earlier explained without a hint of resentment that slaves and hired hands controlled him in varoius crafts because of his (young) age.

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