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PODCAST

Life After Ministry

Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a Christian nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What

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All Episodes

00:34:06

Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/10/06

Why is it so hard to let go of a ministry you love before something forces the decision? Robin Fuller knows firsthand. After more than 23 years in pregnancy center ministry, she burned out and heard that only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well.She decided to be part of that 10 percent. Robin lifted the mantle off her shoulders in front of her board and walked through a four-year succession plan that started with a simple "Things I Do" document.Matt and Robin talk about why founders

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00:30:46

Leaving a Gift Or a Legacy? (featuring Anthony Barton)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/09/29

Anthony Barton was a successful business owner when a trust attorney asked what his family mission statement was - not his business one.That question pushed him beyond leaving a gift toward building a legacy, and within 90 days he and his family were serving in Swaziland.Cancer later clarified the shift. Anthony sold his company, entered seminary, and now coaches Christian entrepreneurs through Convene.In this conversation he shares frameworks for pausing and pivoting, caring for people as

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00:39:38

Leading Through the Trust Jungle (featuring Rob McKenna)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/09/22

What happens when trust breaks inside a church, nonprofit, or leadership team?Dr. Rob McKenna explains why trust is more than a feeling, how leaders can rebuild it after failure, and why succession is really the transfer of trust.This conversation explores emotional maturity, candor, vulnerability, blind spots, competence, reliability, and the three questions every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here?Key TakeawaysTrust has identifiable drivers,

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00:33:08

Holding Gratitude & Grief (featuring Dennis Atwood)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/07/21

Most ministry leaders expect to decide when they step away. Dennis Atwood never had that opportunity.After serving churches for nearly three decades, Dennis was diagnosed with early-onset Parkinson's disease. He quietly carried the diagnosis for years before the progression of the disease forced him to step away from the pastorate he loved. In this deeply honest conversation, Dennis reflects on grief, identity, suffering, and why choosing gratitude isn't about denying pain but discovering God's

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00:37:49

When Home Becomes the Mission Field (featuring Nate &...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/07/14

Missionaries spend years preparing to go to the field, but few are prepared for what it feels like to come home.After serving six years in Germany, Nate and Brittany Bruns share the unexpected challenges of returning to the United States, navigating reverse culture shock, raising third-culture kids, and rebuilding community.Ultimately, they discovered God was calling them to live as missionaries in their own country. Their story offers practical encouragement for missionaries, churches, and anyone

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00:30:54

Ministry, Mercy & Moving Forward (featuring Scott Sauls)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/07/07

Few ministry leaders expect the end of their pastoral chapter to unfold differently than they imagined. Yet for many, transition arrives carrying both grief and unexpected opportunity. In this honest conversation, Scott Sauls reflects on stepping away after more than 30 years of pastoral ministry, processing the loss of a role he loved, recovering from work addiction, and discovering a new calling shepherding high-capacity leaders. Along the way, he offers wisdom about identity, friendship,

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00:33:10

Healthy Pastors Plan Healthy Exits (featuring Keith...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/06/30

Founder transitions are some of the most difficult moments in ministry leadership, but they don't have to end poorly. After leading the church he planted for 27 years, Keith Spurgin shares the lessons he learned about succession, feedback, sabbaticals, and letting go with confidence. He also reflects on the leadership mistakes he nearly made during COVID and how stepping away for a year ultimately prepared both him and his church for a healthy transition. Key Takeaways Healthy succession planning

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00:46:12

Finding Ministry at Home Depot (featuring Steve...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/06/23

Many leaders secretly believe their value comes from what they do. But what happens when the title disappears, the ministry ends, or life takes a turn you never expected? In this deeply personal conversation, Steve Cummings shares his journey through ministry leadership, addiction recovery, job loss, financial uncertainty, and ultimately discovering a deeper identity as a beloved son of God. From sitting in rehab at age 55 to working at Home Depot and eventually launching Bringing Kingdom, Steve

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40:34

Hope Is Within Reach (featuring Gary Blackard)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/06/16

Most leaders know succession planning matters. Far fewer know how to start the conversation.In this episode, Gary Blackard, President and CEO of Adult & Teen Challenge USA, shares lessons from leading a national ministry, navigating leadership transitions, and helping people find hope in the midst of life's most difficult challenges. From succession planning and organizational stewardship to addiction recovery and spiritual formation, Gary offers practical wisdom for leaders who want their

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39:56

No Elevator to Everest (featuring Will Acuff)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/06/09

Success in ministry can hide struggles that few people ever see. While Will Acuff was helping build a nonprofit that would eventually launch thousands of entrepreneurs and transform communities, his family was walking through years of exhaustion, medical challenges, and uncertainty. The contrast forced him to confront a difficult question: what happens when the strategies that helped you succeed no longer work? In this conversation, Will shares the lessons he learned through leadership succession,

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32:38

A Wealth of Ministry Outside of Ministry (featuring...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/06/02

Leaving ministry is rarely a simple decision. For many pastors, it comes after years of carrying responsibility, managing expectations, and trying to care for everyone around them while quietly neglecting themselves and their families. In this episode, Shawn Gwaltney shares the story of how ministry slowly became unsustainable, what pushed him toward transition, and how he eventually rediscovered purpose through business, mentorship, and helping others find clarity. This conversation offers hope

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34:25

Mending the Fracturing Church (featuring Dr. Andrew...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/05/26

The Church is carrying more tension than many leaders know how to navigate. Political polarization, fractured trust, rising anxiety, and unrealistic expectations on pastors are reshaping congregations across the country. In this conversation, Dr. Andrew Hale shares why he believes the Church is not collapsing but entering a moment of reformation. Together, we explore how ministry leaders can stop treating non-essential issues as ultimate ones, rebuild authentic community, and lead congregations

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31:24

The Imperfect CEO (featuring Jim Brown)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/05/19

Leadership transitions often expose something many leaders spend years trying to hide: the fear that they are not enough for the role they carry. Whether it is a pastor navigating succession, a nonprofit executive facing organizational change, or a CEO realizing old leadership methods no longer work, the pressure to appear confident and certain can quietly isolate leaders from the people they serve. In this conversation, Jim Brown shares why healthy leadership begins when leaders stop trying to be

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34:04

How to Hand Off a Church Without Losing It (featuring...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/05/12

Church transitions often expose what has been neglected for years. In this conversation, longtime pastor Wayne Hoag reflects on the painful lessons he learned after leaving one church unprepared for his departure and how that experience shaped a completely different approach to succession later in ministry. Together, we explore what healthy pastoral transitions require: humility, long-term preparation, deep love for the church, and the willingness to release control before crisis forces the

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47:58

Missing Links in Ministry Successions (featuring John...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/05/05

Leadership transitions often don’t fail in the moment they happen. They begin to unravel long before that. In unclear expectations, undefined roles, and decisions made without discernment. This episode explores how fear, lack of clarity, and misaligned leadership structures quietly shape outcomes. It offers a clearer path forward for leaders and boards navigating change. Key Takeaways Fear of mistakes can stall leadership more than mistakes themselves Decision-making and spiritual discernment are

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46:18

Lost in Transition (featuring Steve Woodworth)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/04/07

Succession is one of the most important moments in the life of a ministry.And one of the most misunderstood. After decades working with leading Christian organizations, Steve Woodworth has watched leadership transitions unfold from behind the scenes. Some created momentum and clarity. Others quietly eroded trust, fractured relationships, and stalled mission. What makes the difference? In this episode, Steve shares the patterns he’s seen across hundreds of organizations, why internal succession is

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40:32

Leading Christian Organizations Through Change...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/03/31

Leadership often looks clear in hindsight, but confusing in the moment. For Tami Heim, the journey into leadership began with a dramatic shift in ambition. Just days after graduating college, she surrendered her plans to follow Christ, stepping into a life where leadership was no longer about advancement but obedience. Over the next several decades, that calling would lead her through massive corporate change, cultural disruption, and deeply personal trials. From navigating retail mergers during

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40:52

A Conversation About Invisible Grief (featuring Drew...

Life After Ministry ·

2026/03/24

There’s a kind of grief that doesn’t come with a clear loss. No funeral. No ending. Just the quiet ache of something that never came to be. For many in ministry, this kind of grief goes unnamed and unaddressed.Drew Hensley calls it “invisible grief.” It’s the pain of unrealized hopes, whether that’s infertility, singleness, unmet expectations, or a future you were certain God was leading you toward. And because it’s unseen, it often gets buried under responsibility, performance, and the pressure

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34:15

Leadership Was Never My Calling (featuring Eric Reid)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/03/17

Many ministry leaders begin their journey with a genuine desire to serve. But somewhere along the way, leadership can quietly become something else. Platforms grow. Expectations rise. Applause becomes affirmation. And before long, influence begins to shape identity. Eric Reid spent years traveling the world teaching leadership alongside John Maxwell. From the outside, it looked like success. But internally, Eric began to notice a troubling pattern. Leadership had become a performance, a way to

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34:44

The New Dawn of Retirement (featuring Doug Bullock)

Life After Ministry ·

2026/03/11

What happens when a pastor steps away after decades of leading a church?Many leaders imagine retirement will bring peace and freedom. But for pastors, the transition often carries unexpected weight. The loss of identity, the quiet grief of leaving a community, and the challenge of rediscovering purpose can make the next season far more complicated than anticipated. After serving the same church for 35 years, Doug Bullock faced this reality firsthand. What began as a thoughtful transition into

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