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PODCAST

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Legal Talk Network

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law"s Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

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All Episodes

38:27

Dispatches From The Collapse Of The Rule Of Law

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/29

And a Biglaw firm seeks help while an in-house attorney blows up her career.----- Catching up with the slice of the conservative legal movement who have stared into the moral abyss of the Trump administration and recoiled in horror. The Society for the Rule of Law held its annual summit and while many attendees voiced clear-eyed opposition, some continued to grapple with the cognitive dissonance in recognizing that Trump might be the natural and logical consequence of their own long championed

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32:20

No, Your Honor, I Didn't Call You That, I Was Talking...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/22

Also frivolous lawsuits and the insidiousness of dishonest analysis.----- Appeals court decides that some things are best left unsaid. And among those things are calling your judge the c-word. Just so we're clear, even though this was over Zoom, we're not talking about "cat." After trying to bully Michigan Law Review through litigation, the anti-DEI publicity hounds at FASORP have dropped the case. And with Trump inching closer to declaring martial law in America's cities, right-leaning legal

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38:08

On Campus Hiring Is Broken, And This Isn't Helping

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/15

Just in time for the AI slop to take over.----- Some law firms are handing out recruiting entertainment budgets to law students. While we don't fault law students some sweet walking around money, placing that power in the hands of students highlights the breakdown in the law school recruiting process and a real risk of baking more bias into hiring. Why has Kirkland memory holes its incoming partner class? The decision to opt out of its traditional announcement message seems like a move to shield

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35:19

Is This The Beginning Of The End For The Bar Exam?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/08

One can only hope.----- For a long time, the bar exam seemed like the nasty habit that the legal profession just couldn't quit. But there's finally some progress on that front, with Utah unveiling a new alternative pathway to licensure that values experience and the skills that an actual practitioner needs. We also check in on Cadwalader, where the firm brings on a new co-manager while taking some serious blows in the lateral market. Finally, the Supreme Court is back in session, so we look back

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30:20

All The Cool Kids Are Passing The Bar, All The Cooley...

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/10/01

Biglaw capitulators face new challenge and James Comey gets indicted.----- Perennially embattled Cooley Law School once again called out by the ABA over sagging bar passage rates. The school has been out of compliance with ABA standards since 2020, and now finds itself on probation with its accreditor. The last time something like this happened, Cooley sued the ABA into relenting. History is a flat circle. After learning that Paul Weiss and Kirkland were providing free legal services to the

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31:18

Nothin' Says Lovin' Like A Benchslap

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/09/24

Law firm fires lawyer over Kirk comments and law school announces new scholarships.----- Perkins Coie cut ties with an attorney over Charlie Kirk comments on social media. The remarks were measured and reasonable, but the firm is still fighting the Trump administration in court and -- seemingly -- does not want any distractions or mere appearance of bias. But is that a worthy excuse? A Pillsbury partner received a benchslapping over what the judge considered unchecked entitlement. A Biglaw

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30:20

A Tale Of Two Supreme Court Book Tours

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/09/17

Compare and contrast as ACB and Sotomayor ride (media) circuit.----- Amy Coney Barrett and Sonia Sotomayor are both hitting the talk shows and it's highlighting how awkward the nation's relationship with the Supreme Court really is. Barrett went on Fox and accurately stated that the Constitution prohibits Trump running for a third term. Then the host offered a "wink wink" prompt and she started backpedaling. Meanwhile, Sotomayor went on Colbert and bent over backward to give her conservative

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36:30

The Fundamental Dishonesty Of The Supreme Court

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/09/10

Law school is more expensive than it used to be... but barely more expensive!----- Federal judges have had to deal with more and more threats from conservatives whipped into up by the Trump administration rhetoric blasting judges blocking illegal executive orders, only to be unceremoniously overruled by the Supreme Court. Last week, multiple judges called out the Republican justices for issuing unexplained opinions refusing to challenge -- indeed, passively encouraging -- Trump's attacks. So much

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28:12

DOJ Has Egg On Its Face

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/09/03

The Department of Justice is having a rough time getting those trumped up charges (pun intended) from the fed's takeover of D.C. to stick. Plus lawyer getting slammed for trying to use opposing counsel's premature baby as leverage. And infamous law professor Amy Wax has her legal case against University of Pennsylvania thrown out of court, but it's unlikely to be the end of her antics.

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35:12

2400 Reasons To Brush Up That Resume

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/08/27

We know where some of those pro bono payola hours are going.----- Be prepared to be on the clock a lot longer at King & Spalding, where the firm has introduced a 2400 hour “productive” time target. In other words, attorneys will have to figure out how to describe 2400 hours worth of work to the firm’s billing software every year. This seems to follow the overarching retreat from the work from home era, which also made news this week with a firm announcing a new office mandate… but just for some

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33:14

The Sandwich Is Mightier Than The Sword

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/08/20

Law firms get some worrying numbers from last quarter.----- The new D.C. folk hero who threw a sandwich at Trump's surge publicity stunt turned out to be a DOJ attorney. He's been fired because this administration will not stand for disrespecting law enforcement... unless they're trying to kill Capitol police officers on January 6. Meanwhile, the legal industry enjoyed a muted quarter. Are they preparing to batten down the hatches for a recession? Supreme Court begins moving the pieces into place

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30:50

Missing: Biglaw's Summer Bonus Matches

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/08/13

Milbank delighted with special summer bonuses, ranging from $6-25 thousand, for associates. And that's great for them! But where are all the matches? We have a theory on when associates at other firms will be able to cash in.There was some fishiness (now resolved) with the constitution on congress's website. Which, honestly, should be more shocking than it is. Biglaw partner lateral moves are all the rage, with some major moves this summer. But not everyone is benefitting from the hotness of the

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30:27

The Bar Exam Death Drive Becomes Dangerously Literal

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/08/06

And Coldplay and pierogis.----- A woman went into cardiac arrest during the New York bar exam. Thankfully, the administrators responded swiftly. JUST KIDDING! They yelled at other examinees to be quiet and keep working on the test while they deliberated about calling for emergency assistance, according to multiple witnesses. The woman survived, but the bar exam's unwillingness to admit its mistakes expose the rotten incentives of this stupid, unnecessary test. The Coldplay jumbotron affair sparks

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34:56

Lawyers Getting Really High On AI Hallucinations

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/07/30

Get it together, people!----- It was a very bad week for lawyers and hallucinations. A federal judge had to withdraw an opinion with fake cites. One Biglaw firm fired a partner over an invented case, while another firm got tossed off a case over AI shenanigans. And the scribe of Ashurbanipal got mercilessly trolled by a judge pointing out that his fake AI cite apology included... another fake cite. Why does it seem like this is all getting worse? A Biglaw firm pushes its start date leaving

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40:14

Who Knew Biting Other Lawyers Was Frowned Upon?

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/07/16

Lots to chew on this week.----- Biglaw summer associate let go after biting upwards of 15 people at the firm. Now that sounds crazy, but that's because it is. We also discuss a lawyer's biting response to a demand letter. A lot of the professional decorum advocates objected to the tone, but at a certain point how does the profession pushback against aggressive and unfounded demands without public shaming? There's not another readily accessible disincentive. Finally, we address the gnashing of

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42:35

The Hallucinations Are Winning

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/07/09

Law firm mergers and John Roberts brags for the crowd.----- Has the era of the mid-sized firm come to an end? Probably not, but with increasing nationalization and the financial pressures that go along with it, mid-sized firms are consolidating and a valuable segment (and price point!) may be lost. Lawyers have faced a steady stream of sanctions for citing fake cases generated by AI, but now a judge officially blessed an order based on AI-hallucinated cases as a critical firewall in the war

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40:16

Supreme Court A Hot Mess

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/07/02

The Term ended with a whole lot of nonsense.----- Taking a sledgehammer where a chisel -- or better yet nothing -- would do, the Supreme Court nixed injunctions it didn't like by striking down the power to issue universal injunctions totally and addressed schools teaching that gay people exist by expanding strict scrutiny to parents lodging religious complaints. But at least they whined and took swipes at each other over it! Meanwhile, Justice Sonia Sotomayor figured out that if the majority

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36:23

You Catch More Judges With 'Honey' Than With Vinegar

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/06/25

And the Supreme Court has a wild one.----- Except those judges aren't going to like it when you catch them. Like the poor lawyer here who called a judge "honey" during oral argument and entered a spiral of no return. We also had a dramatic week at the Supreme Court, with Justice Gorsuch trying to start something with Justice Jackson and Justice Jackson shutting it right down, and Sam Alito using his concurrence to complain that the transgender care ban is an act of discrimination... and the he

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30:27

The Jerkstore Called, They're Not Running Out Of Lawyers

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/06/18

Also, the role of bar associations in 2025.----- According to a new survey, lawyers think their law firms are really tolerant of jerks. Are they right about that, or just overly sensitive? The DC Bar election ended in a blowout, but why? For all the complaining about some wild theories on social media, the simpler reason is that leading a bar association in 2025 means standing up to the administration and Pam Bondi's brother never convinced the members that he'd be able to do that. In fact, the

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35:11

So Long And Thanks For All The Bonuses

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer ·

2025/06/11

Caving law firms experience exodus.----- Paul Weiss fancied itself clever when it offered Trump pro bono payola in exchange for dropping an illegal executive order. Instead it keeps hemorrhaging senior lawyers with more departing to join the recent rainmaker spinoff and associates reportedly high on the new firm's wish list. While litigators are largely driving defections from surrender firms, at what point does a hollowed out litigation department start to impact the firm as a whole? Harvard Law

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432 results

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