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PODCAST

The Systemic Way

Sezer and Julie

This podcast gives the listener an opportunity to hear conversations with people from the field of systemic psychotherapy. Host Sezer and Julie, two systemic and family psychotherapists, discuss a wide range of topics, theories, practices and experiences with their guests, giving the listener an insight into this disciplines contribution to social change.Artwork by Arai Drake Creative: http://www.araidrake.com/portfolio/thesystemicway/Music by Rena PaidWe are now being supported by the Association

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All Episodes

89:23

White Nanny, Black Child: Systems of Care, Silence...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/10/26

In this episode, we reflect on the deeply moving documentary White Nanny, Black Child (2023), which explores Britain’s “farming” system — a practice through which over 70,000 West African children were fostered by white British families between 1955 and 1995. Through the voices of nine adults who reunite to share their experiences, the film opens up tender and painful reflections on identity, belonging, and survival. We listen to the echoes of care and silence that continue to shape lives lo...

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109:47

Still We Listen - Where Whispers Move: Systemic...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/10/12

In this very special episode we sit down with members of the DWP - Race Group (Shakira Nkanang, Calvin Malcom and John Burnham) as we turn our systemic lens on the iconic album by Tracy Chapman (Tracy Chapman 1988). We ask, how does Tracy Chapman's album provide a soundtrack for confronting race, power, and privilege in therapeutic practice? What do the anthems of our lives reveal about the systems we live in? We unpack how "Talkin' 'bout a Revolution" isn't just a protest song, b...

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78:41

An Ocean of Meaning in Speech Melody: Accent,...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/08/31

In systemic psychotherapy we often focus on the words we use, but what about the sound of them? In this episode, we meet with systemic psychotherapist and social worker Jordan Makmihe to explore the subtle yet significant role of accent in therapeutic practice. Our conversation considers how the nuances of our speech—the melody, the rhythm, the inflection—carry unspoken stories about identity, belonging, and power. We discuss how these vocal cues quietly influence the relationship between th...

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63:00

Reading as Reflexive and Mindful Practice: A...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/08/02

In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with therapist, trainer, supervisor and author Desa Markovic to explore her compelling paper on the Aspects of Reading (2021) - a model that invites practitioners, students, and educators into a deeper, more layered relationship with texts. Desa guides us through a nuanced framework that separates and then interweaves four key reading positions: The Author’s View, The Reader’s Personal Response, Critique, and Self-Reflexivity. Together, we u...

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59:55

The Love Revolution: Soul, Soil & Society with Satish...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/07/06

In this inspiring and thought-provoking episode, we sit down with peace activist, former Jain monk, and ecological visionary Satish Kumar to explore the profound power of Radical Love—the focus of his latest book. Together, we dive into how love can be understood not just as a personal feeling, but as a systemic force capable of transforming families, communities, and entire societies. Satish shares his reflections on how love can shape education, economics, politics, healthcare, and environm...

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88:39

"In the Nest of Relational Process" - Nora Bateson on...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/06/01

What if our biggest crises – from climate collapse to mental health – demand not simpler solutions, but a deeper embrace of complexity? Join us for a profound conversation with Nora Bateson, award-winning filmmaker, writer, and systems thinker. Nora takes us inside the rich ecology of ideas explored in her groundbreaking book, Combining. Nora challenges us to see the world as a web of inseparable relationships, where every action ripples with incalculable consequences. She argues compell...

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64:50

EFTA - Systemic Therapy in A Changing World: Social...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/05/16

In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, we sit down with Umberta Telfener, President of EFTA, and Hans Christian Michaelsen, Vice President, to explore the heart of systemic practice across Europe. Together, they unpack what EFTA (European Family Therapy Association) is, how it’s structured, and what it offers to both long-standing members and curious newcomers. We hear about their personal journeys into systemic therapy, the organization’s current goals, and the evolving landscape of fam...

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95:00

Liberating Systemic Values: How IFT’s Social Action...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/04/16

In this episode, we speak with Taiwo Afuape and Sumita Dutta, Co-Directors of the Institute of Family Therapy in London, to explore the rich history and bold new direction of one of the UK’s leading centres for systemic practice. Together, we reflect on IFT’s legacy, its role in shaping generations of family therapists, and how its current leadership is reimagining training and practice through a lens of social justice, inclusivity, and innovation. This is a conversation about change, c...

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93:25

The Wisdom of "Not Knowing" - Collaborative...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/04/06

Join us for an inspiring and thought-provoking interview with Dr. Harlene Anderson, a trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and co-founder of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach. In this deep dive, we explore her revolutionary ideas—from challenging traditional therapy hierarchies to redefining power, knowledge, and the role of language in healing. We’ll unpack: - The origins of her work—What drew her to the Mental Research Institute (MRI) and constructivist ideas? Who were h...

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54:39

Sailing the 7 C's of Systemic Practice in Primary...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/02/18

Join us in this insightful episode as we sit down with Dr. John Launer, a retired GP, family therapist, and pioneer in integrating systemic and narrative approaches into healthcare. Dr. Launer shares his journey from general practice to becoming a leading figure in training healthcare professionals to use therapeutic conversations in their everyday work. Discover the transformative power of Conversations Inviting Change (CIC), a method Dr. Launer co-developed to help clinicians balance the no...

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114:22

"Thinking Theory, Talking Ordinary": John Burnham on...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/02/03

Join us for an inspiring and personal conversation with John Burnham, a true trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and a visionary in the field of family therapy. With a career spanning over five decades, John has dedicated his life to transforming the way we understand and approach mental health, particularly in the context of eating disorders and family dynamics. In this insightful podcast episode, John Burnham, reflects on his decades-long career, sharing personal and professional experien...

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82:34

Opening Doors for Open Dialogues in the UK: In...

The Systemic Way ·

2025/01/19

In this episode, we sit down with Nick Putman, founder of Open Dialogue UK and a leading force in adapting the Open Dialogue approach to the UK. As a UKCP registered psychotherapist and certified Open Dialogue practitioner and trainer, Nick shares his journey of learning directly from pioneers like Jaakko Seikkula and Jorma Ahonen, and how he has worked to bring this revolutionary approach to the NHS and beyond.We explore Nick’s visits to Western Lapland to study Open Dialogue in practice, hi...

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84:31

Neurodiversity, Systemic Practice, and Reflections –...

The Systemic Way ·

2024/12/15

In this episode, we’re joined by attendees from the Hayaa’ Network’s groundbreaking conference on neurodiversity, held in Singapore in February 2024. Together, we reflect on the latest advancements in practice, research, and theory in this rapidly evolving area of mental health, all through a systemic lens. Featuring insights from keynote speakers Dr. Marwa Azab, Ms. Nora Bateson, Ms. Maimunah Mosli, and Dr. Mairi Evans, this conversation dives into the intersections of neurodiversity and sys...

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74:50

The Divided Island - Film as Systemic Intervention:...

The Systemic Way ·

2024/12/01

Join us for a compelling exploration of, The Divided Island, a groundbreaking documentary film that delves into the complex history, identity, and shared humanity of Cyprus. In this episode, we sit down with the film’s creators - director Cey Sesiguzel (Turkish Cypriot) and co-producer Andreas Tokkallos (Greek Cypriot) - as they reflect on their journey of collaboration and friendship, the stories that shaped their film, and the ways art can bridge even the deepest divides. We are also j...

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95:29

Songs of Hope and Change: David Denborough - a...

The Systemic Way ·

2024/11/17

In this episode, we sit down with David Denborough, a leading figure in narrative therapy and community work, to explore the fascinating journey that brought him to this transformative approach. David shares the early influences that connected his values and beliefs with narrative ideas, offering insight into the foundational stories that shaped his practice.We dive into his relationship with the Dulwich Centre, the renowned hub of narrative therapy, uncovering how he became part of this vibr...

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77:09

Race, Power, Privilege and the Psychology of...

The Systemic Way ·

2024/10/27

In this episode with speak with Dr Dwight Turner who shares his thoughts, ideas and reflections on his two books Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird (2021) and The Psychology of Supremacy: Imperium (2023). Dwight shares his personal stories around his early life, career and training as a psychotherapist weaving through themes of race, power, intersectionality and privilege. He talks about the creation of otherness and ways to deepen our under...

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103:04

Race As The Highest Context Marker: In conversation...

The Systemic Way ·

2024/10/06

In this episode we are joined by the Association for Family Therapy (AFT)'s Diversity Working Party (DWP) - Race Group. The group share their experiences of meeting and working together and their ongoing commitment to bring race to the forefront of our practice. The members talk about the complexity of grappling with this. Alongside this, they share the energy, passion and playfulness with which they endeavour to create safety to explore race in a meaningful way that can support changes ...

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55:16

The Estranged Energy Cycle: Understanding Ruptured...

The Systemic Way ·

2024/09/18

In this episode we talk with Khara Croswaite Brindle about her book Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships.We hear about how therapists can prepare to address ruptured mother daughter relationships in a therapeutic space. Whether it is repairing the estrangement or preparing for it, Khara takes us through the cycle of estrangement and offers tools to manage the different stages. We focus on areas such as identifying the cycle, challenges of each stage and how to attend to these ...

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75:01

A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from...

The Systemic Way ·

2024/09/01

In this episode we are joined by Ozlem Kose PhD to discuss an article she co-wrote with Fatma Arıcı-Şahin & Ahmet Abakay, A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from Critically Informed Family Therapy Perspective. Journal of Feminist Family Therapy, 33(4), 315-329 (Kose et al 2019).Özlem Köse, an associate with Couple and Family Therapy Montreal, holds a Ph.D. in medical family therapy and is a registered clinical counsellor boasting 15 years’ experience in individual, couple and famil...

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73:18

Addressing Race Based Trauma! With Dr. Jamila Holcomb

The Systemic Way ·

2024/08/18

Dr Jamila Holcomb is a marriage and family therapist and supervisior in Florida joins us to discuss racial trauma. Given the current climate and the ongoing wrestle with racism and its impact on communities and individuals this episode offers essential tools for anti racist practice.Jamila takes us through the important area of racial trauma in clinical settings. We hear her talk about defining racial trauma, barriers to addressing it, clinical best practices for therapists and supervisors an...

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