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PODCAST

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome to The Overlap"s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world.The show will be discussing the best stories from football"s past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left.Join us at Football University!If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See

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All Episodes

56:52

Drugs, Murder, And The World Cup Part 1: The Narco...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/03/03

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of our three-part special on Colombian football and the tragedy of Andrés Escobar.Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the extraordinary history of Colombian football leading up to the 1994 World Cup. This episode covers the intersection of football and narco-culture, Pablo Escobar's involvement in the sport, the tense rivalry with Argentina, and the dramatic road to qualification culminating in the

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21:54

BONUS: Turf Wars: Bill Buford Sneak Peak

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/02/27

We're on Patreon! As a treat to our loyal listeners, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author Bill Buford to round up their series on hooliganism.BONUS EDITIONSExclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversationsfrom one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and

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57:32

Turf Wars Part Two: The History of Football Hooliganism

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/02/24

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part of our two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the roots of football violence from the 1890s through to its transformation into organised ‘firms’ in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. They discuss the origins of the word ‘hooligan’, early crowd disorder and FA crackdowns, and how post-war prosperity, youth subcultures, away travel and ‘taking ends’ helped create a new kind of

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1:04:37

Turf Wars Part One: The Making of ‘Hooligan’

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/02/17

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of a two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Cass Pennant - former West Ham United Inter City Firm member who later became an author and film producer. They discuss director Ian Stuttard (known as “Butch”) and his 1985 groundbreaking documentary 'Hooligan', which challenged the stereotype of hooligans. Cass explains how Stuttard earned access by

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18:03

World Cup Countdown: 1934 | Patreon Sneak Peak!

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/02/13

We're on Patreon! As a treat to our loyal listeners, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.In a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through the World Cup! This will be dropping every Wednesday on Patreon - so we've gone with the imaginative title of World Cup Wednesdays!If you join, you'll also be getting ad-free main episodes, loads more bonus episodes, magazine retrospectives and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be

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55:19

Pep's Manchester Masterpiece: A Ten-Year Journey

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/02/10

Welcome back to It Was What it Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into Pep Guardiola’s story at Manchester City 10 years on from his appointment at the club and the difficulties he would face in his opening season. Join us as we explore the highs and lows, from the thrilling victories to the unexpected defeats. We discuss his controversial decisions, key matches, and the significant signings that shaped the team's future. Can Pep's philosophy adapt to

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17:45

Shoot Magazine Throwback EP 1 - Patreon Sneak Peek!

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/02/06

We're launching on Patreon! And to kick things off, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.In this first episode in a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through historic issues of football magazines - starting with Shoot!If you join, you'll also be getting all of our main episdoes ad free, bonus episodes, World Cup countdown and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be supporting the show and connecting with the "It Was..."

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56:07

Luis Figo's Shock Transfer: From Barcelona to Real...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/02/02

We are excited to announce that we will be launching a Patreon on Friday 6th February, where you can get bonus episodes and exclusive content. Follow the link below to sign up:Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It WasWelcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. On today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue exploring one of the most controversial football transfers - Luis Figo's move from Barcelona to Real Madrid. In this

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55:02

Luis Figo's Shock Transfer: From Barcelona to Real...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/01/27

Welcome back to It Was What it Was, the football history podcast.Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into one of the most shocking football transfers of all time - Luis Figo's move from Barcelona to Real Madrid. They discuss the immense impact of this transfer on both clubs, the controversy surrounding it, and how it altered the landscape of football transfers forever. Featuring insights about the political machinations in both clubs, the role of agents, and the seismic shift this transfer

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1:12:54

The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/01/20

Welcome back to It Was What it Was, the football history podcast. In the final episode of our four-part special on the NASL, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into the decline and eventual collapse of the league. From financial instability, over-expansion, and missed opportunities, to the controversial business decisions and the rise of indoor soccer. This episode covers the myriad of factors that led to the NASL's downfall. Explore the final turbulent years, the impact on US Soccer, and

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1:06:22

The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/01/13

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this third episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dive deep into the transformation kicked off by the arrival of legendary soccer star Pele. We go on an epic journey of the NASL, from shambolic beginnings to becoming one of the most iconic and influential leagues in world football, even if just for a short while. We explore how the NASL went from drawing

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59:23

Recommended Replay: When Amorim Arrived at Man United...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/01/07

Following the sacking of Ruben Amorim by Manchester United, here is a recommended replay from our episode released in November 2024, when Amorim first arrived at Manchester United. Jonathan and Rob discuss the clubs persistent challenge in finding a manager capable of replicating the legacy left by its legendary figures - something that still stands today... Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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1:01:27

The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/01/06

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue onto part two of a four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL). They discuss the initial attempts to establish professional soccer leagues in America, including the rivalries between the NASL and the National Professional Soccer League (NPSL). The episode covers the impact of foreign teams, the financial and logistical hurdles, and the ongoing struggle to gain

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47:41

New Years Day Special Episode

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2026/01/01

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring you a New Years Day Special Episode. We hope you enjoy and wish you all a Happy New Year! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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1:00:26

The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2025/12/30

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a special guest and former footballer Dennis Tueart. In this first episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), Dennis, known for his iconic moments with Sunderland and Manchester City, shares his remarkable journey from English football to the booming NASL in the 1970s. Discover his experiences with the New York Cosmos, playing alongside

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1:07:19

Escape to Victory: The Cult Classic with Pele, Bobby...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2025/12/23

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this Christmas Special Episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author John Smith to talk about his new book - 'Escape: A Love Letter to a Cult Football Classic' all about the film 'Escape to Victory'. The trio delve into the making of the film, revealing behind-the-scenes stories, discussing the film's historical context, and analysing the football sequences. We take a look atinside stories from the remarkable

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1:02:39

The Cold War Classico: George Orwell on Dinamo...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2025/12/16

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into George Orwell's infamous essay on sport, specifically focusing on Dinamo Moscow's 1945 tour of Britain. They explore Orwell's controversial viewpoint that serious sport is akin to 'war minus the shooting,' and delve into the historical and political context of this post-WWII football tour. The discussion covers the tactical innovations introduced by the Soviet team, the media and

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1:02:50

British Society: Through The Lens of Football

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2025/12/09

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest and historian David Goldblatt. In this episode, they discuss David's new book, 'Injury Time,' which examines the impact of recent seismic events like Brexit, COVID-19, and populism on football in Britain. They delve into the popularity of football despite its numerous challenges, the economic disparities within the game, and the global obsession with the Premier League

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52:46

The Russian Pele: The Scandal of Eduard Streltsov |...

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2025/12/02

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look into the dark and controversial period of Streltsov’s life. In this second part we cover the heinous crime that Streltsov was accused of, the subsequent trial and conviction, and his years in the Gulag. Despite the damning evidence, Streltsov's eventual return to football and continued popularity are explored, along with the societal implications and unresolved questions surrounding his story

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50:46

The Russian Pele: The Scandal of Eduard Streltsov

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast ·

2025/11/25

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the story of Eduard Streltsov, the 'Russian Pele'. In the first part of this two-part series, we trace Streltsov's meteoric rise from a poor upbringing to becoming a celebrated football talent. Witness his groundbreaking performances, his early brush with fame, and the personal flaws that began to unravel his career. Discover the events leading up to the fateful allegations that would

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